[Flawed]

I cant remember that its mentioned who Lorics mother was. And he isn't a Soletaken as far as i can tell. Another anomaly!

[Abyss]

It's not really a debate of logic and science - we're trying to figure out what SE's 'rules' are for this element in the stories.

Iirc, all soletaken eleint we've seen are either the child of two draconic blooded individuals (Dawn, Dapple, Dusk, Spite, Rud (bcs we can reasonably include Udinaas), or 'drank from/shagged Tiam' (Rake, Ruin, Ossi, Scabby, Korlat, Orfantal et al). Elder Gods are a bit more unlcear, but probably fall into the 'drank/shagged' category (Krul, Draconus, Olar). Children of one draconic parent are quite clearly NOT draconic (Loric, Nimander). And we don't know what the deal is with Envy - maybe veering gives her puffy eyes or something.

HOWVER, my point re Nimander and Phaed was NOT that they should be draconic, but that they should have been somewhat less weak, ie: Phaed should not have been so easy to kill (window + ground = Tiste Pancaiik) given that she has elder god, draconic and 'eldest' Andii in her. And in general, back in HoC on Avalii the Edur were likely going to wipe them out if Apsalar, Traveller and co hadn't gotten in on the act. So, no elder warrens, no bursts of power, no intense strength or general toughness - why?

- Abyss, 'drank/shagged' his way thru uni, yet sadly didn't end up draconic.

[mmdw45]

Danyah;193724 said:

We don't even know if Tiam is eleint, nor Draconus. They are both EG, elemental forces, no?

Olar Ethil says, "When I veer, I am as an undead twin to Tiam." This suggests that Tiam is a really, really big dragon.

-Max

[Imperial Historian]

Well we know that Andarist did his best to keep the andii on drift avalli from learning anything about weapons and magic, so it would make sense that they don't have any skill, no matter your ancestry, if you've not had any training you are going to be rubbish.

[Abyss]

You have a point, but i'm thinking beyond skill and training into raw power.

Ie: Seren had little training from Corlo in Mokra, and she almost killed Udinaas inadvertantly, and made Clip bleed from his ears. One would have thought Fade at least had Kurald Galain 'on-call'.

It's not that i can't accept that Withal just tossed her out a window and 'splat', Phaed fades, it's just that it seems somewhat 'too easy'.

- Abyss, notes it wasn't the fall that killed her, but rather the abrupt stop at the end.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Dawndeath;193797 said:

Remind me, who was L'oric's mother again? And was he a soletaken dragon?

The identity of L'oric's mother hasn't been revealed yet.

Quote

I don't think that's completely fair. When magic is involved in such a high degree, who knows how much of it 'carries through' to offspring.
Also, your use of 'probably': what's that based upon? Just curiosity.

Right. So all this talk of genetics is pointless. "Probably," because it may well be that in this world the acquired characteristic of being a Soletaken Eleint is a hereditary trait.

[Lokill]

I would imagine that the difference in raw power stems from a mental component as well as their ancestry/parentage, after all SE is big on the whole willpower as a route to power issue.

Plus, Nimander didn't seem to have any sense of self-worth. It seems to me that the perception is the thing and if Nimander thinks himself weak then that is what he is - unless the stress of trying to kill his sister has opened his mind to actions that could lead him to power, choice being an act of Will and all that.

[Dawndeath]

Also, if he (NG) was a powerful character, maybe his storyline in TtH would be less interesting: this way he can grow in his storyline.

[Danyah]

And Nimander seems to suffer from chronic self underestimation...

[mmdw45]

Note that Nimander's POV says that Phaed's mother is one of the Tiste Andii on the Silanda. When she's about to kill Drukorlat, "of course there is no lock binding the latch. No reason for it. Save one murderous child whose mother's head stares at canvas on a pitching deck. The one child who went to see that for herself."

Apparently she was lying when she said her mother was Lady Envy. Then again, according to Udinaas, the Tiste lie about their lineage quite frequently.

-Max

[Abyss]

wait, wait... that's a good point wd40 just made... is Phaed's mom Lady Envy, or is it just a lineage thing...?

- Abyss, thought the head thing was just sick.

[Flawed]

So who was Phaeds father again? this is confusing.

Basically she was a wuss and shouldnt of been. Lucky it was Withal and not me. I would of flexed a Suplex then Tombstoned her a55 out of the window.

I think these are wrestling moves still? Is Mr Perfect still going?