[Onos]

One of the things i have enjoyed most about the malaz books (after the complexity and the overflow of vague history) is that characters actually die. And good characters. Tired of never having to worry about ANYONE dying. (someone in a thread mentioned the Wheel of Time books were no one ever dies.... good example that drove me crazy!)

So my question now is, are there any characters we think have a "veto" death card for the remainder of the books? And i dont mean they are too powerful to die, i simply mean for X reasons SE wont knock them off.

Example: I think Paran is now immune from being eliminated. He is new to his role. He is pretty central and is still coming into power.
I would also hazard Fiddler cause he has been so central to many of the plots, though i could see him biting it in the last book. Not too many others that i can think of quickly... think most characters could be killed to shake things up a bit.
Karsa: I think he is safe for a bit... his character is still growing and becoming more 'wise'. Not to mention he has unfinished crap with the Treblor.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I don't think Fiddler has any special protection...in fact his death would be very affecting, and I don't think he is that essential.

I would agree that Paran is going to make it to the end, along with the CG (obviously). I think Trull is also a good bet for continued survival. As is Kruppe.

I'm struggling to think of other people, I'm running through a list of other people and can imagine them all dying before the end - Rake, Apsalar, ST, Cotillion, Pust, Icarium, Mappo, Rhulad, Laseen, Tavore, they are all fair game I think.

Is there anyone else who is all but certain to survive? (Temul, based on chapter headings, are there any other people confirmed in this manner?)

[Onos]

Temul is a good one!

What makes you say Trull? I think he is more likely but yet dont have a good reason.

I wish Apsalar would bite it... but you think SE would do that... what about the crappy Cutter/Aps love connection.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I was quite glad when Cutter died in BH...that's the not-actually-dead-after-all that bothered me the most. I mean, the Unbound eviscerated him and left him lying on the ground with his guts spilling out...and he lived long enough to receive medical attention...and then he survives and recuperates from his MORTAL injuries???

I wish he had died. Cutter bores me.

edit: I think Toc the Younger will survive, because he stills need time to write all the poems that were chapter headings in GotM.

[Dolorous Menhir]

Ah, of course. I think Kettle gets a pass on similar grounds. And I think Silchas Ruin will survive - I don't see all three Andii brothers dying in the series, and if I had to choose between Rake and Ruin for a glorious tragic death...

[Dolorous Menhir]

potsherds said:

I think Trull will still be alive. Reasoning: he's the last of his line. (I know this is an incredibly weak arguement.)

Three of four brothers are still alive - though Rhulad can probably be considered lost, there will still be Fear to continue the line if Trull dies.

[Agraba]

Paran can get an arrow/quarrel to the head and that's it. He did stuff already, like sanctioning the Bridgeburners and the Crippled God, so he can be wiped off, and there will still have been a point to having narrated him.

Fiddler did his role by giving us the point of view of an aging soldier in a sordid life, one who was not important to the scope of things, but still important to us. He can be done away with now.

Karsa has a "destiny", but that doesn't mean he has to fulfill it. I personally think that Rhulad might surprise us, and actually wipe the floor with Karsa. If not, we saw how much trouble he had with one short tail. Now there's an army of them.

Trull has already showed us his big tragic story, and has played his role by contributing such an emotional factor to the series. Sure, people still think he's unfinished because he's yet to encounter Rhulad once more, or he hasn't been reunited with Seren, but things don't always turn out as people ordained. So I think Erikson could easily wipe him off in the next page.

Bottle may have "prophesized" that Kettle would be ruler of the shadow realm, but remember the prophecy of an emperor being crowned in Lether?

I think the only characters that can't be killed are the Elder Gods. Because they're elemental forces.

And I think I was the one who spoke of WoT. Not only can you not fear the death of a character, but there's no threat of anyone turning bad. 7 books. 7 Books I've been waiting for, since #4, and the foreshadowed, dreaded encounter finally happens in #11 and the hero nudges it aside like an annoying fly, even though he doesn't expect it.

And by the way, even though Steven Erikson can kill his characters, he can't do it with the mundane brutality and indiscriminatory fashion that GRRM can. SE's deaths are still quite glamorous, with a big finality. GRRM can take the characters you love most, and have mobs throw vegetables at him and have his head lopped off like a dog. Or just have someone smash him from behind after he just made a glorious victory.

[GardenGnome]

In a similar thread a few weeks ago, lots of people said Cotillion makes such a great character for dramatic death, and I have to agree. Somehow I doubt he'll survive.

[Abyss]

Dolorous Menhir said:

Three of four brothers are still alive - though Rhulad can probably be considered lost, there will still be Fear to continue the line if Trull dies.

Not sure if this was ref'd, but is it generally agreed that was suggested in TB that the mage Karsa killed in the Nascent was Binadas?

- Abyss, can't keep track of all the dead Edur around here.

[GardenGnome]

Can't think of anything pointing against it, allthough we can't be certain - it could be some other Edur mage with Binadas on that trip, and Binadas just happened to be away from the ship when Karsa hit it? We have no indication that Binadas is alive - the Edur think of him as dead, and we know an Edur mage died on it. I'd say he's dead, but wouldn't be too surprised if he suddenly turned up along with Fear, and they overthrown (or try to) Rhulad.

Potsherds: Yes, it started as a thread for "who will survive", but it turned into anything about death - who do you think will die, who do you hope will die and so on.

[Ivan the terrible]

Nah i don't think SE will kill Cotillion, its too obvious, he has to suffer, the burden of worshippers; He won't die but his ending won't be pretty either

On the other hand just as obvious but i believe Rake has to die, he kinda reminds me of Achilles but smarter, definitly gotta finish him off. I think Tayschreen would be a good choice to die heroically, Maybe Kalam survives his wounding in BH but i don't like the idea of him , raqllick nom or vorcan survivng the series, it would be cool if they came back posessed oR undead... just wishful thinking, I think it would have been better if he died in BH. Apsalar should die, crokus should become emperor. Hopefully Brys plays a role in the next book, don't think he will die again.

I want trull to kick Rhulads ass, While Iccy and Karsa never get close, but just wipe out all the armies to get to each other until Hood turns up and tells them to stop because he is full, and can't eat anymore breaks Karsa' chains. Olar ethil should be there cause what is a conflagration without a couple of dragons, a missing army of t'lan imass should be there also menandore.

I would like to see more of fear also presumably with Scabby in tow as a shadow of his former self(pun intended) fear becomes disenchnted because his god is a pathetic creature and realises that himself and Kettle are going to have to give Rhulad a spanking on their own...but then they get indiscrimanatly killed by Karsa, because they are in the way

I want to know more about the eres and the Jhistal and Grub

It just struck me this convergence could be Absolutly massive

[Ivan the terrible]

Agreed! Crokus should go insane and die a horrible and pointless death. I was just waffling Crokus would be a crap emperor. I completly forgot about tool, i don't think he will turn up but as he is my fav character i would like him to kill someone really famous

[Tattooed Hand]

I find it difficult to see Karsa dying. I do hope someone takes the Jhistal priest out. He creeps me out big time.

[Abyss]

I tend to agree with the above post that the only people who are safe from death are the ones ref'd in chapter openers to be alive years later. And just to add fule to the fire, consider that some are even MORE likely to die due to their omission from such.

Case in point, that famous HoC opener that ref's 'the Three' including Grub, and Gammet's vision suggesting Nil and Nether are the other two... well, given Nether's interest in Bottle, her presence in The Three would suggest he doesn't make it.

- Abyss, moo hoo mwa ha haaaa.... (that was my evil laugh, in case you missed it )

[Onos]

Cutter gets close to getting back with Apsalar but she spurns him again. He dies sortly after in some selfless way then ascends to become a god of sorrow or longing. Patron of broken hearts. Actually would become a quite powerful god... since that is a common aspect...