[Yasnian]

He might not care.
He might not know.
Mabye it does against some moral standards he has, he won't force his followers to do what he wants.
He did spend many years as a manservant, so theres no telling what this guys up to.

[Abyss]

Welcome!

The relationship between gods and followers seems to be a key element in the books and TB in particular.

The Jhistal sect, as described, was a fairly bloodthirsty bunch. This SEEMS to be utterly disconnected from Mael as we know him as Bugg, but, thinking of Mael as a god of the sea, having a bunch of bloodthirsty followers worshipping the aspect of him that routinely drowns shipfuls of people isn't unthinkable.

Also, consider that in MoI, Keruli was 'just' a manifestation of K'rul... we don't know that Bugg is the sum total of all things Mael. He could just be the cheery, happy go lucky, fine day for a cruise isn't it aspect.

Finally, one wonders whether things went badly for Bugg when he went to beat the CG senseless... and event that appears to take place BEFORE Rel's involvement in things in DG and later.


- Abyss, likes diversity in his deities.

[madala]

Does Mallick Rel pray to Mael sufficiently fervently to make him fall in a canal?

Or is he a parasite on Mael's power?

The warren used to stir up the crowds in Malaz was Mokra, neh? Pissing with people's minds and making them want to kill Wickans. Point being, Rel is described as a priest of Mael, but this power (of the sea) does not appear to be what he uses to attain his filthy ends.

[caladanbrood]

I don't think that Mael is anywhere near and nice as you might think;)

However, I think the most likely that Mael simply doesn't really care too much about his worshippers. After all, he's an elder god, not one that's particularly active in the world anymore...

[Tattooed Hand]

Maybe Mael got tired of bloody sacrifices and is hiding out until people forget him, except Rel got ahold of an old book and figured out how to tap the source of Mael's power, which is not the same as Mael himself.

[4092]

Hmmm.... Think of the relationship between Gods and their followers - recall the conversation with Greyfrog?

[Tattooed Hand]

I need to do a serious reread of BH. I burned through it merely to sate my narrative lust, without really absorbing alot of those details.

Remind me the relationship?

[4092]

Followers hold more sway over their gods than you think.

[JAGHUT JIM]

madala said:

The warren used to stir up the crowds in Malaz was Mokra, neh? Pissing with people's minds and making them want to kill Wickans. Point being, Rel is described as a priest of Mael, but this power (of the sea) does not appear to be what he uses to attain his filthy ends.

Mockra was being used in small amounts by the mages present in the crowds but the overall power being used to turn things ugly in Malaz City was Chaos aspected (dont have my bonehunters with me at the moment but will get the quote from it when i do). Rel did place large high ruse traps through the city tho so he definitely was drawing on Mael's power along with his other allies.

[Morgoth]

I think people make a mistake in assuming that the Malazan empire is a force of.. good.. Why should Mael care who rule an empire on some random continent. Indeed, would it not be natural for him to look positively upon his Jhistal ruling an empire? Surely that would boost his following and influence, no?

[Dolorous Menhir]

TheEdgewalker said:

was there not mention of "High Ruse" during the mob attack of the Fourteenth? Ruse is the warren of the seas, and I supposed that was Mallick Rel. Am I wrong?

Sure it was him, I'm fairly sure QB says that he knows of no practitioners of Ruse in the Empire, it's a very rarely used warren. Rel is the only known user in the series (apart from Silgar the slaver, who is dead as of BH, and Mael himself perhaps, though that would be the unknown Elder parent, presumably.)

Though can't rule out the possibility that Rel has fellow Mael worshippers supporting him somehow (though we would have seen them at some point, so unlikely) or that the elements he has subverted among the Claw have begun to use Ruse (a long shot).

So, it was all but certain to be Rel using Ruse in Malaz City. That it was described as High Ruse makes it even more likely.

[BridgeBurner]

Abyss said:

Finally, one wonders whether things went badly for Bugg when he went to beat the CG senseless... and event that appears to take place BEFORE Rel's involvement in things in DG and later.

That's an interesting thought. I guess we'll have to wait and see how Bugg will look in RG.

I don't think Mael is really aware of what Mallick Rel is doing, nor do I think he really cares. As for the Jhistal cult in general, maybe their bloodthirst is what has kept Mael alive as a god. Elder gods need blood spilled, and I don't think drowned saolors add much there...

[Father Light]

Mael wouldn't be aware of Malick i believe for tw reasons.

1. he has focused his attentio on lether, therby becoming an absentee god to the rest of wu, i.e. a source of power who places no constraints on his worshipers.

2. after lether escaped the ice working of gothos and rejoined the world i believe that mael's focus would have become diffuse across various oceans as implied by spite when she states that mael couldnt combat the eres cos his power was too spread out.

Mael would give mallick the sort of spankin he gave the crippled god at the end of mt!! "Excuse me I'm gonna go beat a god senseless"!!!

[Aptorian]

caladanbrood said:

I don't think that Mael is anywhere near and nice as you might think;)

However, I think the most likely that Mael simply doesn't really care too much about his worshippers. After all, he's an elder god, not one that's particularly active in the world anymore...

Thank you, very pressing,

The little bit about "nice" is perhaps the most important. Like it say's in MoI, Elder gods imbodies a host of unpleasentriesl(sp?)...
Mael doesn't need to be nice, he's OLD...

More importantly the other post about.., he might not know.. he might not care. like he says to tehol, he's tired and really dislikes the thing we discribe(sp?) as civilization

tatooed hands @ That might just strip him of his last powers, remember, the old gods liked blood

[blewin]

um.... we can tell from the prologue of MT that Mael IS concerned about the bigger picture, but in the course of MT, we also get to see the Mael who would rather experience the joy of being a plain mortal (while conspiring with the Ceda to get rid of the demon).

so I'd conclude that overall, Mael would get his hands wet with things that tend to affect A LOT of people (like the fate of the world), but he wouldn't pay much attention (or that he just doesn't pay enough attention to know) to little things like what Rel's doing.