[I HATE PORMQUAL]

just finished HoC and like all of SE's novels i am left with more than a million questions.

the one question i can most easily remember is: What happened to Apsalar?

from what i gathered she left Cutter because she didnt want him to become what she is (a deadly assassin, or just a killer im assuming).
where did Cotillion send her or where did she go? back to quon tali?

damn gods interfering with everything.

i cant wait to get onto bonehunters so i can read about Cutter back on Genabackis and Darujistan. or shouldnt i be holding my breath?

[Lord of Salvation]

I am speculating the same thing. "Where did Cotillion send Apsalar."

She does love Cutter and probably where she is going here skill might not be sufficient, so he would be extremely hard pressed.

But since no one will answer this we must wait till after BH, and it might not be resolved in that book even

[Folken]

what LoS said.
Wait for Bonehunters, she does big and awesome things towards the end of the novel. Okay now read Midnight Tides, go "OMFG! SO THATS WHAT THEY WERE!" or "OMFG! SO ... OMG! THIS MAN IS A GENIUS SO MUCH PLANNING!"...yes...o read the novels and be in awe of Steven Erikson. Your questions shall be answered in Bonehunters, Midnight Tides is a neccessary novel it provides explainations for a lot of questions (even though there are no malazan's in there)

[SiriusL]

Jen said:

what LoS said.
Wait for Bonehunters, she does big and awesome things towards the end of the novel. Okay now read Midnight Tides, go "OMFG! SO THATS WHAT THEY WERE!" or "OMFG! SO ... OMG! THIS MAN IS A GENIUS SO MUCH PLANNING!"...yes...o read the novels and be in awe of Steven Erikson. Your questions shall be answered in Bonehunters, Midnight Tides is a neccessary novel it provides explainations for a lot of questions (even though there are no malazan's in there)

I know this is a dumb thing to do, but I have to just post real quick about an epiphany I had this weekend. I was out for a jog, and it occurred to me that many of the events we've seen have been planned by Shadowthrone.

**edit**
Please forgive the apparent steam-of-consciousness flow, here. I only posted it here because of the "OMG! THIS MAN IS A GENIUS SO MUCH PLANNING" comment, above, which reminded me of Shadowthrone.
**/edit**


Look at MoI:

K'rul and Silverfox made a deal with Hood to create the Mhybe's dream world. But instead of dying (as Silverfox had planned) and going to Hood, the souls of the T'lan Imass were cleansed and their memories began populating that Dream World. And instead of a world just for the Mhybe, we saw Togg and Fanderay make it the home of the Beast Hold.

How did this happen? Well, somewhere way back Fanderay got stuck in an Ay's body. She's been wandering the world since. Togg, on the other hand, was trapped in the warren of chaos, where he stumbled upon the one-eyed body of Toc the Younger (nice name, btw). If it hadn't been for Hairlock's apparently random toss of Toc into the warren, Togg would never have been released, and Fanderay wouldn't have been awakened. K'rul noticed Togg back before he cursed Kallor, but seemed to think that he couldn't do much for Togg. Maybe I misread that implication.

What else? Toc was transferred to the young, fresh body of Anaster, who just happened to have lost an eye, and who is know the Mortal Sword of the Beasts.

At first I thought this was all Krul's doing, but then I remembered that K'rul seemed to want the same thing Silverfox did. And Kruppe, who's apparently Krul's mortal lackey, didn't seem all to excited about the whole Itkovian thing.

So, who would be interested in planting a god on the Beast Throne, a god with close ties to Toc the Younger? Toc the Younger has very close ties to the Malazans, and there's just no way that Laseen could engineer all of that. If it was K'rul, I posit that he had help from ST. That's what ST's been doing for three books. He's trying to align the Houses and Holds with allies so as to challenge the Crippled God. I think K'rul has the same goal.

Now, with all that said, is Burn the daughter of Dassem Ultor?

[Dolorous Menhir]

I think K'rul is behind or has a hand in most of the "old god" manipulation going on, for example the ascent of Treach to true godhood or, as you mention, the reinstating of the Beast Hold and the assumption of control over it by T & F.

I can't say for definite that ST has not part to play in this, but he doesn't have the old ties to these individuals that K'rul does. On the other hand, ST has had ten years of godhood to plan for the CG, whereas K'rul was totally unactive for the whole duration of the CG's stay on Malazworld until GotM....but I still think K'rul is the main mover here.

[SiriusL]

Hetan said:

Hmm... I don't think so.
The Crippled God is chained to Burn and has been for nearly 2000 years?
the last chaining in which Dassem's daughter died only took place within the last 50 years... so it doesn't tie up does it?

Yeah, I thought I'd throw it out there, knowing how unlikely it is. Does NoK shed any light on what happened to his daughter?

[I HATE PORMQUAL]

Hetan said:

Hmm... I don't think so.
The Crippled God is chained to Burn and has been for nearly 2000 years?
the last chaining in which Dassem's daughter died only took place within the last 50 years... so it doesn't tie up does it?

in the prologue of MOI it says in the 2nd part of the prologue 120 thousand years before Burns sleep, 5 years after the fall of the crippled god, did they chain him then? or did he rise later and then they chained his ass?

also is "Burns Sleep" metophoricial for a god who went for a nap? or did this massive titan have narcellipsy and fall over sleeping? im thinking its the second cuz when Quick does his thing theres all those guys holding up Bruns insides/guts/whatever they hold up

[Illuyankas]

The CG fell 120,000 years ago, but took some time to reassemble himself from the various pieces of body left scattered around Korel and Jacuruku. After that, he started asserting himself on the Malazan world (or Wu, depending on my mood) and doing enough damage to warrant being stopped, for the first time in a series of Chainings.

I think - my personal theory - is Burn is an Elder God, of the earth, the whole planet and everything on it, who may have had a different name back then (I like Kilimandaros, but it's just as likely not). I still have a little problem with her deciding to fall asleep because of the CG and destroying the world if she wakes up, but not needing to do this before the CG came; perhaps he's eroded her control, stole her power somewhat - in fact, he's done just that, at least some of it, with his infect-it-and-turn-it-to-CG-power warren plague. And Quick was in a warren, probably a blood vessel in the system of the goddess Burn.

[SiriusL]

Illuyankas said:

I think - my personal theory - is Burn is an Elder God, of the earth, the whole planet and everything on it, who may have had a different name back then (I like Kilimandaros, but it's just as likely not). I still have a little problem with her deciding to fall asleep because of the CG and destroying the world if she wakes up, but not needing to do this before the CG came; perhaps he's eroded her control, stole her power somewhat - in fact, he's done just that, at least some of it, with his infect-it-and-turn-it-to-CG-power warren plague. And Quick was in a warren, probably a blood vessel in the system of the goddess Burn.

After reading MoI again, I'm fairly convinced that Burn is dreaming the current world. I'm not exactly sure how all that works, but there were just too many parallels with the Mhybe and Baaljag and the whole "she sleeps...to dream!" phrase.

So, if Brood wakes her up with the hammer, the civilizations that exist inside that dreamworld will be destroyed. I think her dreamworld is a warren like any other.

This doesn't make a ton of sense, given that Raest was imprisoned long before Burn's Sleep, and he seems to know about her in MoI, and that the CG has been around long before Burn went to sleep.

[Dark Mac]

Didn't MoI say that Burn's dream was actually inside of the hammer? It doesn't really make much sense for Burn to be dreaming the world, considering how young she is.

Why does everyone in the world know when Burn went to sleep though? What happened when she did?

[Illuyankas]

I don't think Burn's dream is in the hammer, more that the hammer is made of Burn, and has a lot of power in it and is used as an alarm clock for a rather painful awakening. The age thing is why I think she had another name, and was worshipped under that name until recently. As for how long Burn has slept for, about 1150 years now? Considering the most accurate dates we have, for the recent developments, are ones like 1157 BS - for Burn's Sleep.

[I HATE PORMQUAL]

burns queen of dreams right?

[Hume]

No.

burn is Burn and the Queen of Dreams is The Queen of Dreams

In Hoc loric actualyl has a convo with the Queen of Dreams so that sortta negates that possibility.