[Aptorian]

I'll quote some lines from the passage on p. 173. The T'rolbarahl is lying in wait for Mappo and Icarium.

... Fresh blood, slowly losing it's heat, filled the d'ivers' stomachs. There had been no shortage of victims, even in this wasteland. Herders, salt-miners, bandits, desert wolves, Dejim Nebrahl had fed continously on this journey to the place of ambush.

My point is that people like to say that Dejim didn't become as powerful as he should have been because he didn't have time to feed and grow strong. That's not very accurate. He starts of in his oldest weakest form by killing 11 mages and priests of the NO. Pretty impressive. He then cut a path through the countryside, eating all the way. He's pretty much as powered up as he could have been when he attacks.

Even though I remember him thinking that when he gets stronger, after his failed ambush, there will be even more of him.

I'm just saying that, the apparent massive potential of Dejim, is all in the creatures own head. In the end it's his own ego that defeats him.

[Whelp]

Apt said:

I'm just saying that, the apparent massive potential of Dejim, is all in the creatures own head. In the end it's his own ego that defeats him.

Wouldn't that be even more fitting? Dejim would not be the first one to suffer that fate (Kallor, Getholcome to my mind).

[Raymond Luxury Yacht]

He ate something like 6 or 8 nameless ones as soon as he was released.

[Whelp]

6 High Mages, 5 priests and priestesses.

[Abyss]

Point i suspect we've totally overlooked...

1. He was SUPPOSED to also eat Sister Spite, a draconean ascendant and daughter of an elder god and a Tiste Edur with a (possible) direct bloodline to Mommy D. Spite bailed (understandable), so Dejim may not have be as strong as the NO intended.

2. The NOs geased him to occupy Icarium and take out Mappo. Why do we assume the geas 'really' ended there? If he chowed his way to the ambush site, he should have been able to find more snacks after. But he doesn't. He wanders around confused and starving and when he finally finds a meal, Pust, a High Priest of Shadow (and note, it's been hinted more than once that Shadow and the NOs/Azath have some link) stops him. So maybe i'm giving SE a huge amount of credit for subtlety, or maybe i'm just rationalizing, but i'm wondering if the NOs were not as mindless of the consequences of letting Dejim loose as they seem to be.

- Abyss, conspiracy theorist. And tin foil hat maker. Wheee.

[Obdigore]

He did eat the nameless ones, but does what you are before he eats you matter. Can you say he ate 3 miners, 4 herders, 5 priestesses and 4 mages? Or that he ate 16 humans?

Also, he never had to fight the nameless ones, they sacraficed themselves, put up no resistance. Just another thing.

[Whelp]

@Abyss:
Or maybe Dejim just got to a part of 7c, were the last human settlements were eradicated by Icarium (and Time)?
Nevertheless, the idea of a long-term geas sounds plausible - but then, what would have been his ultimate goal? Did the NOs count on Paran releasing the Deragoth, thereby inconveniencig ST?

[Abyss]

@Whelp: Totally true, but since he wandered through a populated part to get to his ambush, it seemed he was pretty aimless after that. I suspect that while his ultimate goal would have been to eat people, regrow his shadow-lizard bodies and conquer the world (moo hoo mwa ha hah!), the NOs sent him sideways, figuring he'd starve or someone would take him out sooner or later (not specifically Paran).

@Obdi' - good point that he didn't have to hunt breakfast when he got out of the ground. And while i suspect there is power in high mages and priests that isn't in your average human, one way or the other he would have used a chunk of power to take on Iccy and Mappo and win.

- Abyss, is satisfied with a muffin and coffee most AMs.

[philospher77]

Apt said:

My point is that people like to say that Dejim didn't become as powerful as he should have been because he didn't have time to feed and grow strong. That's not very accurate. He starts of in his oldest weakest form by killing 11 mages and priests of the NO. Pretty impressive. He then cut a path through the countryside, eating all the way. He's pretty much as powered up as he could have been when he attacks.

Even though I remember him thinking that when he gets stronger, after his failed ambush, there will be even more of him.

From what I remember, he is using the blood to spawn more copies of himself, and to heal up. So, is it possible that he has been expending the energy in making copies. I.e., he could use X amount of blood to make 3 really super-duper copies, or 9 copies that were each a third as powerful. So the question would be whether you are better off with a few really strong creatures, or with a lot of weaker creatures so that you can do mob attacks. And being a D'ivers instead of a Soletaken, he went for numbers.

Personally, I'm still not getting what the appeal is behind being a D'ivers. I can kind of get it if it's a hive-mind situation, and there is one "real" you, but not if each one is a complete replica so that it doesn't matter which one survives. This is, of course, strictly a personal bias of mine.

[Abyss]

Actually, i thought he only had a max of seven bodies, ie: one per soul. Because of his Dessimbewacky-based origins, unlike most animal based shapeshifters, he's also a vampire-type thingy, and that's what makes him both different and more dangerous than your average bunch of hive-minded soletaken d'ivers panda bears or something.

Now there's a bit of confuion there, as it seemed pretty clear in DG that a shapeshifter eating another shapeshifter got a power-up, including possibly more bodies, while it seems all Dejim needed to do was go dracula on a people, the more powerful the person, the better, but he didn't get more bodies, just more power.

- Abyss, before the chicken AND the egg.

[Dolorous Menhir]

I remember Dejim Nebrahl clearly thinking to himself that he would "add" more bodies once he got the chance to feast. May have been just before his ill-fated attempt to attack the caravan that was thwarted by Pust - who I think is Magi of Shadow.

[Abyss]

I took that as meaning replacing those he had lost.

- Abyssssssssss, ain't got no booooooooody......

[bwgan]

@Abyss ~ yes that's how I remember it, but thinking about it Dolorous could also be right? (Decisive? Me?)

PS: Perhaps you ain't got no body but you just proved you got soul!

[madala]

I think that the power he gained from the 11 NO's went into making 6 other D'ivers. I think that the buried and bound Dejim was singular. So feeding on way to ambush of Mappo to build strength in the clones.

Abyss, I think your idea about the NOs perhaps not being quite so careless is good. They do supposedly serve order in their own way, after all.

[Illuyankas]

Dejim stated that the caravan would replace the missing members, and pehaps allow him to fashion an eighth, so there isn't a limit of seven.

[Abyss]

@Illy and Hetan re: possible 8th - good catch and interesting point... which i suppose also goes to how powerful in fact Dejim could have become.

- Abyss, body and soul.

[BridgeBurner]

On the topic of D'ivers being able to get more numerous, remember Gryllen in DG, at the end of the Path of Hands in the garden at tremorlor, compared to when he/they killed Baudin earlier...

He had become exponentially more numerous.