[MecnunK]

I came across an interesting little passage on reread of MT where it is mentioned that K'chain Chemalle had started a ritual prior to their destruction,which will eventually destroy MD and thus the tiste races with it. Now as I understand it tiste are not originally from this world but rather some aliens and I was wondering what the relationship if any there is of MD with Burn who is also beset however the key differnce is that maybe Burn can potentially start anew whereas MD is definently going to get destroyed unless someone can stop the ritual. Are these two entities similar but just from different worlds? ANy theories I may have missed?

Secondly it seems like MD is responsible for humans, Jaghut, Toblakai etc.. the native races of this world whereas MD is only for Tiste races whom apart from their coloring are essentially same people. Jaghut and humans on the other hand are quite different. I also wonder if the ritual mentioned is something that will never happen in terms of the storyline as it could be million of years before MD meets teh abyss or whatever it is..

It's bugging me..I dont know why

p.s I guess Envy is also partly Tiste which I had missed the first time round. and Loric has two nasty sisters..I wonder if he knows about them or met them..

MT on the reread is 10 x better, first time around I couldnt get into it at all.

[Yasnian]

As far as I can tell they are different.
Mother Dark is lost in some sort of abyssal warren, which could be why we haven't seen anything from her. The ritual dooms MD to eternal light in that warren (or part of one) untill the end of the world. I guess that dooms the Tiste too, because they have noone to guide them. Mabye thats why there is so much dissent among the three different Tiste's. Mabye thats why Kurald Emurlhan was shattered.
Burn is asleep. The only thing that can wake her is the Hammer that Caladan Brood has. The CG is killing Burn because he is slowly poisoning the land. If Caladan Brood wakes her, she'll kill CG but also have the effect of earthquakes, floods, hurricanes and volcanic activity-effectivly ending the world. Then a iceage and the world starts again, hopefully this time without a CG

It probably won't jhave anything to do with the story unless someone ends the ritual or Caladan wakes burn. Mabye MD will have some suggestions on how to end the CG.

[gilgalad505]

Yasnian said:

Mabye thats why Kurald Emurlhan was shattered.

The reason its shatterd is because Icarium wounded it while trying to free his father from the Malaz house.

In DH I beleave, someone said something about Theres a price for wounding a warren. sorry I dont recall the exact quote. Anyway thats why Icarium cant remember much.

*edited for spoiler my your's truly Folken*

[Yasnian]

Icarium didn't shatter the warren by himself though and I meant it like mabye if MD was around she could have stopped it or the situation could have been changed.

[Illuyankas]

Dude, you have to keep TBH details in the TBH forum. And there are timeline issues with it being KE that Icarium shattered - he could have broken a warren unconnected to Shadow, or further smashed a fragment of KE settled around the Azath. More details would have to go in TBH, I'm afraid.

EDIT: Yeah, I'm referring to gilgalad505's post. Sorry to scare you like that

[Folken]

Burn and Mother Dark are not similar.

Mother Dark birthed the Tiste Andii
Father light bithed the Tiste Liason
Mother Dark and Father Light birthed the Tiste Edur

As for the passage you read in Midnight Tides. Shes not lost in some warren, she is in Kurlad Galain, she has retreted to its darkest corners (or something like that) and now Chaos is catching up with her, because of the K'Chain and that is what must be prevented from occuring, because of the Warren of Darkness is destroyed all other warrens will go with it, or atleast that is how I see it.

As for Burn, she did not give birth nor is responsible for the species living, for lack of a better phrase, on her...(yes that makes no sense). There has been no connection that proves she gave birth to the races, it is simply that the races evolved from one another, atleast that is true with the Imass and most of the races right now (humans, barghast, etc, etc). Evolutioon simply took place on this planet/warren that is all. Burn, in my view atleast, had nothing to do with. She probably created the earth, trees, etc (as is suggested in Memories of Ice, when Ganoes goes on his little treck through the Azath for the first time and comes across the card of Burn, ask for a page reference if you want it)

As for Icarium having shattered KE, it wasn't him. It was shattered due to scabby. More details to follow about the sundering of KE in Bonehunters

[Yasnian]

If the Kurald Galain is destroyed then I don't think all the warrens would be destroyed just the two other tiste warrens and the three human warrens that mirror them. Meanas and two others. Can't remember

The Eres'al evolve into the Imass and the Imass into humans.

As for the spolier sorry I haven't read TBH yet so I just guessed.

[Folken]

Hes not refering to you for the spoiler do not worry.

As for the destruction of the other warrens, well Mother Dark is essential to the survival of all the warrens some how. I'll try and get the quote, I don't remember the passage in Midnight Tides, as in where it is. If someone remembers could you pull it out. thank you

Its not that the warrens are going to get destroyed its that the entire system of wandering...dark light shadow...blah blah would end thus the cycle would end and when the current cycle ends...nothing will renew it self...someone pull the quote out I dont even remember when and wherei t took place in the book

[Folken]

K found it...MT MMPB Edition = Pg 139 onwards

"...the eternal game among Dark, Light and Shadow would end. And with it all existance" - end of pg 140

So I was a bit off...but thats what it is essentially.

[MecnunK]

Jen said:

Burn and Mother Dark are not similar.

Mother Dark birthed the Tiste Andii
Father light bithed the Tiste Liason
Mother Dark and Father Light birthed the Tiste Edur

As for the passage you read in Midnight Tides. Shes not lost in some warren, she is in Kurlad Galain, she has retreted to its darkest corners (or something like that) and now Chaos is catching up with her, because of the K'Chain and that is what must be prevented from occuring, because of the Warren of Darkness is destroyed all other warrens will go with it, or atleast that is how I see it.

As for Burn, she did not give birth nor is responsible for the species living, for lack of a better phrase, on her...(yes that makes no sense). There has been no connection that proves she gave birth to the races, it is simply that the races evolved from one another, atleast that is true with the Imass and most of the races right now (humans, barghast, etc, etc). Evolutioon simply took place on this planet/warren that is all. Burn, in my view atleast, had nothing to do with. She probably created the earth, trees, etc (as is suggested in Memories of Ice, when Ganoes goes on his little treck through the Azath for the first time and comes across the card of Burn, ask for a page reference if you want it)

As for Icarium having shattered KE, it wasn't him. It was shattered due to scabby. More details to follow about the sundering of KE in Bonehunters

Are you referring to the situation in Rakes sword now or rather do you see a relation there?

Please give the page ref for MOI and burns tile..I dont remember this at all.