[Aptorian]

fan_83 said:

also defending against 2 person is way harder than defedning against 1.. if 2 person move away form each otehr and goes into a pincer movement, you are screwed, whereas against one, you can shift to compensate..

I'm assuming that this part is regarding my critism of Trull.
yes it's tougher fighting two warriors but I think it's a lot tougher fighting one pissed Icarium than it is to fight 10 warriors. If you remember the description of Icarium fighting, it's said that his blade is hacking and slashing everywhere with an inhuman speed.

When Trull meets the Jhag at one point it's discribed like this.
p.871 [... - gods, they moved faster than Varat's eye could follow...]

Now if trull is able to almost match Icariums speed, then he's pretty damn fast and scary with that spear. Yes, he gets cut up and buffeted while it happens, but he still withstands Icarium for some time. And then your telling me he had problems with two edur?!

That's what I mean about inconsistencies... but this isn't a Icarium/Trull discussion, but an apsalar discussion, back on topic

[Aptorian]

They were probably almost ascended then... *wink wink*

[Abyss]

Trull v. the two Edur, he's somewhat ambivalent about fighting his own people, specifically two who were his comrades a long time ago.

Trull v. Iccy, Trull doesn't even know this guy, he just shredded an Edur force and his buddy Onrack and is about to reduce a bunch of Shadowsworn kids to so much cole slaw. So Trull's motives are untroubled and thus...
"You. Shall not. Pass. Oh, crap, there went my spear...."

On the more general topic, sure, SE plays with his characters power levels and abilities, but each situation is different anf he doesn't do so randomly in a vacuum. There are reasons - the arguements we merry band of fanatics come up with here are usually based in something we read.

As for Apsalar, we've never had a clear explanation of what a Shadow Dancer is or can do, beyond some drawing on power from Rashan/Meanas, but perhaps having made peace with her stolen memories and abilities, she doesn't restrain them the way someone who actually had to work to gain them might... she has no notion of limits, so she has none (more or less).

As an aside, the original Apsalar (Imapssalar) may have been a patron of theives, but Apsalar is an assassin. Not the same thing.


- Abyss, about to ascend to lunch.

[Dark Mac]

HoC talks about how she's almost an ascendant. It makes sense that her powers are so great in TBH because she finished her journey to ascendancy.

[Dolorous Menhir]

HUME said:

@ Garden Gnome.
The ones that gained immunity to diseases and other stuff due to Azath occupation were Dancer and Kellanved, the other old imperials eg Nok, Urko etc gained longevity and immunity from various alchemies given from Kellanved. Only two people were allowed in that Azath house. Maybe some of the other old guard got in there at times in a similar way that the Tremorlor crew did. But yeh that seems to be common misconception lately that the old imperial gang had access to that Azath house..

During the Nok/Tavore conversation in HoC, Nok explicitly says that the Family as a whole enjoyed the benefits of Deadhouse occupancy. It was the family's original base of operations, "absolutely secure" in his words, and they all would have had access - even Dujek, though this raises questions about his death. It was off-screen, so maybe he isn't actually dead! Dujek certainly would've had reason to want to give up his command - a broken will - and he could've been told that Paran was available to take his place...

To back up my assertions - Nok's words from that passage (p 296 mmpb)

'"...Only Ameron and Hawl and I escaped. A lad named Dujek discovered where we were holed up and he delivered us to his new employers. Kellanved and Dancer."

"Was this before they were granted entry into the Deadhouse?" Gamet asked.

"Aye, but only just. Our residency in the Deadhouse rewarded us with - as is now clearly evident - certain gifts. Longevity, immunity to most diseases, and...other things. The Deadhouse also provided us with an unassailable base of operations. Dancer later..."'

It's clear - all the Family had access to the Deadhouse, including Dujek. All the Family enjoyed the benefits.

I think the "most" there leaves open the possibility that Dujek was genuinely killed by the plague - a disease spawned directly by a goddess, if anything could kill a Family member it would be that.

There's also some confusion there, Nok includes Duiker among the Family later in that same paragraph - but Duiker thinks to himself in DG that he does use alchemies to maintain his vigour, making no mention of Azath-derived longevity. (I'm assuming this is the source of your assertions about the other Family members, which have no other basis that I know of).

And I think Apsalar is on the very verge of ascension. She needs the final push to go over the edge, a la the assassination of Dancer. I think she needs to die and then will ascend.

[GardenGnome]

It could be that the Azath gave you immunity to all known diseases, but as we all know, diseases mutate and change, so the disease that hit Dujek would be so different from what his defences could handle, that it got through. Or, it was an entirely new strain of disease.

I've been reading for my exam tomorrow, human ecological history. Yes, diseased play a large part

Oh Menhir, thanks for finding that quote - I knew I had read it somewhere, but I couldn't remember who had said it, and so it was a rather hopeless hunt...

[Hume]

@ Dolourus

I remember that Convo fairly clearly that Nok had with Tavore.
But I have my doubts as to how much of that is truth that he is telling.
Because when he states that Dancer came later, or wasnt one of the first few it directly goes against the memory of apsalar and what Kellanved says at Drift Avalli..And I would be more inclined to trust the later on when Dancer came into the empire.
Remember Nok is in a similar position to a lot of other people at that piont, in that he dosent know how much he trust tavore.

[Monoch Ochem]

Paran, Master of the Deck, tells Apsalar that she's immune to the plague because of Cotillion's former possession.

Telorast and Curdle in their ramblings say that Apsalar is very much mortal, even making remarks on her having a period.

I'm inclined to think that she's probably on the verge of ascendancy but not there yet.

[Abyss]

Maybe said:

...As to Ammanas at the end of BH and Apsalar's torture of Pearl, I think he was saying that not even Cotillion would have cut the poor guy to pieces like that, even considering all the painful things Cotillion/Sorry did during the possesion years.

Now that's an interesting interp i don't think anyone's raised before. Hmmm... will consider during the reread.

- Abyss, appreciates a new spin.

[Illuyankas]

He seemed more awe-inspired than disgusted, personally. But a good take on it.

[GingerBreadMan]

Ammanas doesn't seem like the type to ever get disgusted.

He is a physco, more likely to laugh insanely than feel disgusted.

He would probably giggle even while HE was tortured, and mutter something crazy about his plans coming to fruition.

[Brys Beddict]

Apsalar is said to be a lot more cruel than Cotillion. In DHG she leaves a few people to die in the streets after they attack her, rather than killing them outright. Maybe her brutality is causing her become powerful quickly because she disregards life so thoroughly.

[zeeny]

IMO, Apsalar is not ascending. She has already ascended. I can only guess of the specific reasons for it, but as a general rule in the series, to have the possibility to ascend, you need to:
1. Have some special potential.
2. Have a lot of strange/unordinary events happen with your involvement.

Can't say she loses on any of those.
Paran uses something along the lines: "Punching somebody=> he goes right into a wall" as a naive way to illustrate some of the powers that go with the promotion. Well, kicking a hound in the head and sending it flying is pretty much into that category.
I can only guess what her "domain" will be, but if we have a Lord of Tears, there is no problem in having a Lady of Bleeding Hearts......

[Aptorian]

@ Clawmaster
This is the second post, in as many threads, I find from you were your only comment is that you think that the Bonehunters suck but don't contribute with anything else.

If you think that, post your opinion in the critism thread. Don't post random venom in other serious posts.

edit: actually checking your posthistory this seems to be the case every time, unless it was to say something positive about Pearl.