[Abyss]

Sparked by thoughts on another thread...

Sure, we know the Crippled/Chained/Cranky God is a major playa, he's evil, he's powerful, he's doing all kinds of bad things to people, he's harnassed Chaos, corrupted the Edur, set up the Pannion Domin, polluted the warrens... definitely not a kinder, gentler god...

But i'm wondering whether someone else is behind him, next to him, or even smarter than him...

Some candidates...

- The Errant - former Master of the Deck, to God of Balance, to minor player in Leth stuck as a consort/sex toy to keep himself aspected. Maybe he's just a bit pissed about that and sees expanding Letherii/Edur influence from his continent as a handy way to resume serious power. Maybe the whole '12 mages yanking down the CG' was nudged by him;

- Draconus - clearly wants out of Dragnipur, but why is he there in the first place. Was it as simple as Rake wanting the link to Mommy D, or was Draconus up to no good. And from inside the sword, is he STILL up to no good?

- Krul - someone said the elder Gods were a bloody bunch. Maybe they still are. Krul's manipulations are definitely subtle. Notice in MoI, it was the thieves and assassins he was recruiting;

- Dessimbelackis - an unlikely candidate, since he's probably stuck in the Hounds, but he was a cagey one, and allegedly he dissappeared... maybe he's still in the game;

- Gothos - what's he doing, sitting in the Azath, catching up on his reading for the last few millenia or so. Or something sneakier. Maybe freezing death in Leth wasn't such an accident. Maybe he has a bigger plan. ST and Kellanved were too impatient to learn all about the Azath, but Gothos, a Jaghut, has a way longer time to work with;

- The/An Azath - maybe one of those Lost Elementals is a wee bit nastier than Iccy and Edgy thought when discussing the subject. I mean, 'Deadhouse' doesn't exactly sound like a boutique hotel.

- Nightchill - ok, so she's dead. Sort of. But she wanted Dragnipur for a reason, and anyone's guess whether it was a happy one. She's still in the game, and Silverfox may not be as in control as she thinks she is.

- Tiam - From Cotillion's chat, we know dragons aren't as all pleasant as Silanah. Maybe Tiam's apparent lack of recent ressurection is just a cover.

- The Jade Giants - Maybe the CG wasn't pulled. Maybe he was pushed, to open the way for something meaner.

Any others? Thoughts? Theories? The Illuminati? Grey aliens?

- Abyss, loves a good baddie.

[Illuyankas]

What, so the unkillable deity behind all the major horrors happening in Wu isn't enough of a villain?

You missed out a crazed Mother Dark, not to mention Father Light, Kilmandaros, Sechul Lath, Grizzin Fel (assuming that those last two didn't die in the Fall), Stumpy, Greymane, Limp, Grub, Lorn, Paran, the list goes on and on and on...

Sorry man, unless the CG isn't pulling Rel's strings I'm going to believe it's him in charge of the 'kill everybody' team. So to speak.

[Dolorous Menhir]

- Draconus - maybe he told his daughter to break up with Rake. The guy would be a parent's worst nightmare as son-in-law. Seriously, it's noted somewhere that Draconus' time in Dragnipur has mellowed his "legendary cruelty." The implication seemed to be that he wanted to get out and help K'rul and any other EG's fight the CG.

- Gothos - I really don't think he cares. About anything. Whenever I think of Gothos I just see an old man tutting, and muttering "typical". Except with tusks.

- Nightchill - I thought she wanted Dragnipur so that she could free Draconus? Perhaps there was another reason. I wouldn't put Silverfox in charge of an ice cream cone though, so I don't think she'll be controlling much in the future (fingers crossed).

- K'rul - don't think he's a main bad guy, considering he was totally out of the picture until the book II of GotM.

- Errant - he's just not powerful enough, is he? Plus, he was aligned with the losing side in MT. I don't think it did him any good to have what little of his base of worship remains get occupied by Edur.

Other candidates for big baddies....I think the FA still have a role to play, and it's not going to be good news for our heroes. If there are more people like Edgewalker around, you could point the finger at them. And the AWOL EG's - Kilmandaros, Sechul Lath, Grizzin Farl.

[Urko Crust]

I think krul is not as benign as he seems. come on needs blood to sanctify his ground, real benovelent ruler.
Okay so the elder gods cover all realms, the CG and Krul both elder. krul says that he knew him before the fall. the fall turns him insane and krul helps chain him, who is to say that krul did not do it for his own good, like a straight jacket for a nutcase. and now he is working to restore the cg sanity and free him, he just had to wait a long long time for some mind to return to the CG.

Then again maybe not. who knows?

[Agraba]

You forgot Mael. He went to beat up the Crippled God. As a mob boss would do to a collaborator that screwed up.

I know you want the CG to not be the main threat of the series. You want to be shocked by big twists a few more times, and I can't blame you. For such an unpredictable series as the Malazan series, it's kind of disappointing that we got all the inside information as early as Book 3, and you don't want it to be another Wheel of Time, where everyone's gasping about "Shai'tan" at the very beginning.

Anyways, CG seems to be the chief of his own antics right now. I do think that he's the main guy behind the whole vengeance against the Pantheon. But that doesn't mean he has to be centered as the main threat. This suddenly appearing legion of K'Chain sky keeps seems to be a threat that rivals this Edur legion (el CG's main force).

[Kallor]

me...i am behind it all....

@agraba...mr t? give me a break...i'd cast peewee herman as kalam before mr t...

[Urko Crust]

Actually you are right. it would be unlike errikson for there to be only two sides to the main war. 5 minimum with lots of changing sides and betrayals i hope.

[Morgoth]

It's a good question. Especially considering how the differences between the two opposing sides - though I suppose there's far more than just two - have been somewhat reduced. The edur are still vicious, but so is the QoD, and all the other gods as on the side of "good". Ruthlesness is met by ruthlessness and the only god with what seems to be a consciense is the patron of killers for hire.

Also, the question raised about the origins and nature of the CG I think will be of great importance. So, yeah, the population of Wu might find that there is something far worse than an insane, murderous god

[Dolorous Menhir]

And that something would be Kallor taking over the Malazan Empire!

[GingerBreadMan]

Mother Dark-Pissed off momma coming to get some revenge on her children, perhaps using the K'Chain.

Tiam- Dragons dont seem to be doingall that well here, perhaps she came back to life and saw that they are being used/killed/taken advantage of and is going to get some revenge.

Either way i find it highly suspicous that the two most powerful beings in the Malazan Universe(that we know of) are absent. Of course there are presumably multiple worlds so this specific world isnt that important, but Elder Gods are involved so perhaps it is unique somehow. Anyone know why Elder Gods are getting involved? If they span multiple worlds why do they care about what goes on here?

[Ivan the terrible]

Because one of their own fell to this planet.

[Iron Bars]

I'd just like to say one thing: Kruppe?

[Red_orbiT]

If you say Kruppe... I'll say Whiskeyjack.

[Abyss]

Kallor said:

me...i am behind it all...

Heh, more like you're here to see if we're getting close. But I'm ON TO YOUR GAME, Pallor!!!!!!!!
KHAN! KHHHAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNN!!!!

What was i talking about? Oh, right...


@Urko - where does Krul say this? or do you mean he knew him before the Chaining, as opposed to the Fall?

@Danyah - a good point. The game was in play before the CG was yanked onto the planet. Maybe he's a pawn after all.

@Anyone mentioning Mommy D - hmm... good point... maybe she wants to start over because her current kids screwed up so badly she's running for her (possibly metaphorical) life. Let's add her to the list.

Other contenders, tho weak...

Scabby Bloodeye - maybe he's not as bodiless and tormented as some would like to think.

The Otataral Dragon - crucified and such, sure, but maybe the antithesis of magic wants to eliminate magic totally. And maybe not so bound after all.


- Abyss, conspiracy theorist.

[Midnight]

Another candidate could be Shadowthrone. We have no idea what he's up to and he seems to be pulling the strings a lot of the time. As well, he and Cotillion seem to have set themselves up to take on the CG so I imagine they must have somethign to back that up.

[Dark Mac]

The name of the last book is "The Crippled God". That would be an awfully silly name if the CG was not the main enemy.

On Draconus: Rake's a man of cold justice, and Draconus is a man of legendary cruelty. You don't need much more of an excuse than that.

I would think that the KCNR at least would be opposed to the CG, given how strongly aligned with order they are. It would be quite interesting to see Tavore and the KCNR form an alliance.

I see the CG as being the main source of problems for the Malazan world. His chaotic influence upsets the previously existing balance, and so humans still haven't invented the printing press, or even liberal-democracy, in the hundred millenia they've been around.

[buddhacat]

Based on Edgewalker's comments (Dragons are at the heart of this conflict) and Grub's prognositcations (they are waiting for her...), I'd say that Tiam is going to be resurrected (the one resurrection that SE has said the overall story arch is pointing toward - can an arch point?) The CG is one player, probably the main player as far as "existence being in balance," as the blurbs on the back of the books say, but really, it's the Deck of Dragons, so the ultimate convergences are going to invlove them and their wars (pure vs soletaken) as well.

[Imperial Historian]

Ok... a conspiracy theory, the chained god was attracted to Wu because the mages had put up a source of power for him to grab, and he needed help in his war against powers unknown...

So if the CG is an elemental force, those he warred with would be the other elemental forces ie the Elder Gods, so the CG crashes into the malaz world and is chained. Now pre the CG, the big players in the malazan world were the Elder God's, but following his emergence in the world their influence had been increasingly sidelined, now an elemental force is an elemental force, as cotillion says can you kill one? Probably not... so how come they are all getting usurped left right and centre by young upstarts?

I think this is the influence of the CG, his presence in the realm has an adverse affect, the dragons withdraw into SD, the Elder Gods fade, in fact they could almost be said to lose the war, the young gods emerge... zip forward to the present day, the elder gods have a cunning plan to get back into contention on the malaz world, get the younger gods fighting the CG, shed a hell of a lot of blood, and with the resulting power remove the younger gods and get back there world... I mean Draconus, Nightchill, Mael, K'rul and co are a pretty bloody bunch all in all, and Wu is seemingly there home.

Anyway I think at some point there's definitely going to be a confrontation between the old and the new... the elder gods v the younger gods, the holds v the warrens, the pureblood eleint v the soletaken eleint, the CG might be a common enemy for the moment but thats not going to last.

Oh on another note, anyone any ideas on what elemental force the CG was?

[Agraba]

Well, a running theory goes that his elemental force is Light.

But my theory is that the Crippled God is the Christian god of our realm (Earth), and he was alien to them because he occupied all his time here. And since he's believed to be the creator of life, maybe his elemental force is Life. Giving him some connection with the Queen of Dreams.