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Why is Harry Potter so popular?
#42
Astra 
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Posted 08 April 2006 - 07:53 PM
Is it right, that HP and the Goblet of Fire has won Hugo Awards 2001?
Isn't Hugo Awards only for Si-Fi?
Isn't Hugo Awards only for Si-Fi?
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#43
GingerBreadMan
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Posted 10 April 2006 - 02:25 AM
Its popular because a lot of people like it. Simple as that, people enjoy reading it for whatever reason, thus its popular. It may not be the best writing, but it is good enough to make her a billionaire so it must be alright.
#44
Red_orbiT
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Posted 18 April 2006 - 04:00 PM
I find the books enjoyable. Sure, they are not masterpieces or even really good, and the plotting is pretty pushed... but they are still enjoyable.
Danyah. Non aggresive butterflies? Read Perdido Street Station by China Mieville at once. Consider that an order.
Danyah. Non aggresive butterflies? Read Perdido Street Station by China Mieville at once. Consider that an order.
#45 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 18 April 2006 - 04:12 PM
That was what the joke was about. But i'm now waiting for Iron Council to be translated, because it is a little hard for me to read in English.
#46
Agraba
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Posted 18 April 2006 - 06:50 PM
Quote
Yeah but most parents still want to hide their children from violence and pretend like the world is filled with flowers, nice smells and non-aggressive butterflies.
That's a good thing. Yes, the naivety of children can make them too succeptable to the sordidness of real life, however, if you think about it, if every kid in the world learns that the world is fluffy and flowery, then they'll strive to make it that way. Granted, it'll never happen that every kid in the world is subjected to this projection (there's still the fanatic worlds of the Middle East that will encourage vendetta to their kids), but the more kids' minds are twisted towards this manner of thinking, the better.
Anyways, to those of you who critisize Harry Potter's books, here are the universal rules of exemption for writing children's books, still allowing them to be good pieces of literature (for kids, of course):
-Children's books don't have to be realistic; you don't have to have characters die or get in horrid situations when every circumstance suggests that it should happen, evil doesn't have to seem as brutal and unpalatable as it is in real life, etc...
-Kids' books don't have to put shades of grey in morality (like you would attribute to someone like Tayschrenn). It's okay if they strictly define who are the good guys, and who are the bad guys.
-Kids' books don't have to be insightful, or provocative. There's no requirement for the analysis of the main conflict by any party.
-Cliches are allowed to fill up a kid's book. It can have the villain being pure evil; the protagonist being unquestionably good and moral, convenient but unrealistic plot twists are allowed for the protagonists' favor, etc...
These laws of exemption, however, don't apply to regular literature, and instances of these can be critisized.
#47 Guest_Fool_*
Posted 18 April 2006 - 07:57 PM
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Anyways, to those of you who critisize Harry Potter's books, here are the universal rules of exemption for writing children's books, still allowing them to be successful pieces of literature (for kids, of course):
Fixed your post.
But seriously, i dont see why kids wouldnt get tired of cliches as well, or why they wouldnt want to read something insightful or why they wouldnt get pissed at silly plot twists. And i'm not saying harry potter is awful but... there are better children's books out there. Maybe not better in terms of being more accessible or fun, but better in not doing all the stuff you mentioned.
#48 Guest_Sonnyboy_*
Posted 18 April 2006 - 08:47 PM
Well, what some call a cliche, others might call a common motif. Remember that it is only since the introduction of the novel, and in particular the last century, that "cliche" has really been considered a such a horrible thing. And kids don't get sick of cliches, not until we train them to. Some people never get trained to despise cliche, and this is how a movie like Titanic becomes the biggest box-office grosser of all time. Maybe that was a bad example.
Take Shakespeare. If anyone could be deemed the High King of English Literature, Shakespeare would likely be him. I challenge anyone here to name even one of his plays, however, that succeeds based on its originality. The best of his plays are timeless classics, and yet filled with cliche from start to finish.
Harry Potter works because it has a quality of timelessness. There is something in that series of books that resonates with the human experience. Harry is the classic hero, and if we can only be sure of one thing in regards to human storytelling, it's that well-told hero stories will always succeed because the hero is a part of who we are and what we strive for. Harry Potter stands alongside characters like Luke Skywalker, Superman, and others as a hero of our culture.
He is part of our collective cultural consciousness now, and that doesn't happen to just any character.
Take Shakespeare. If anyone could be deemed the High King of English Literature, Shakespeare would likely be him. I challenge anyone here to name even one of his plays, however, that succeeds based on its originality. The best of his plays are timeless classics, and yet filled with cliche from start to finish.
Harry Potter works because it has a quality of timelessness. There is something in that series of books that resonates with the human experience. Harry is the classic hero, and if we can only be sure of one thing in regards to human storytelling, it's that well-told hero stories will always succeed because the hero is a part of who we are and what we strive for. Harry Potter stands alongside characters like Luke Skywalker, Superman, and others as a hero of our culture.
He is part of our collective cultural consciousness now, and that doesn't happen to just any character.
#49 Guest_Fool_*
Posted 18 April 2006 - 10:33 PM
The difference between shakespeare and rowling is that shakespeare shows you how people are and rowling shows you some fantastical version of how people want to be.
Every underdog wants to be the star, and here's a story about an underdog that does become the star. Thing is, though, that doesnt happen in reality. In reality, if you just do whatever you think is the right thing to do and break all the rules you wont be coming out on top.
On the other hand, there are lady macbeths, othellos, romeo's and hamlets everywhere. Of course they are idealized versions in the plays, because it wouldnt really be any good if lady macbeth was just kinda evil, or desdemona was just kinda innocent but you see it everywhere. Someone indecisive, someone whispering in someone else's ear, aiming for their insecurities, someone trying to overcome any obstacle to be with the one they love. Every person you meet probably has a few parts of shakespeare characters lurking somewhere inside.
And again i'm not saying harry potter is awful or anything. It lets you escape to the world we all would love to live in, where every small detail is magical and special and the underdogs win the day. But it never rises above that escapism. And it is possible for even children's books to do better than just that.
Every underdog wants to be the star, and here's a story about an underdog that does become the star. Thing is, though, that doesnt happen in reality. In reality, if you just do whatever you think is the right thing to do and break all the rules you wont be coming out on top.
On the other hand, there are lady macbeths, othellos, romeo's and hamlets everywhere. Of course they are idealized versions in the plays, because it wouldnt really be any good if lady macbeth was just kinda evil, or desdemona was just kinda innocent but you see it everywhere. Someone indecisive, someone whispering in someone else's ear, aiming for their insecurities, someone trying to overcome any obstacle to be with the one they love. Every person you meet probably has a few parts of shakespeare characters lurking somewhere inside.
And again i'm not saying harry potter is awful or anything. It lets you escape to the world we all would love to live in, where every small detail is magical and special and the underdogs win the day. But it never rises above that escapism. And it is possible for even children's books to do better than just that.
#50
Sir Thursday
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Posted 19 April 2006 - 03:35 PM
I would tend to disagree that the Harry Potter series will have/has had much of an effect on the amount that children read, nor that it will cause/has caused an appreciable increase in the number of people reading fantasy.
While practically all of my friends have read Harry Potter, they are all quick to say that they haven't read anything else (apart from the inevitable Dan Brown). I asked those people I could find who did read for pleasure whether Harry Potter made them want to read more fantasy, and unless they were already keen readers of fantasy the answer was always no.
I'm sure that some children will have been inspired to read as a result of JK Rowling's work, but from personal experience, I would have to say that this is an infinitsimal fraction of the people who have read her books.
I would go so far as to say that for the most part readers do not consider Harry Potter to be of the fantasy genre, but rather just a popular children's book. Such a classification will not really encourage people to read fantasy.
Vox
While practically all of my friends have read Harry Potter, they are all quick to say that they haven't read anything else (apart from the inevitable Dan Brown). I asked those people I could find who did read for pleasure whether Harry Potter made them want to read more fantasy, and unless they were already keen readers of fantasy the answer was always no.
I'm sure that some children will have been inspired to read as a result of JK Rowling's work, but from personal experience, I would have to say that this is an infinitsimal fraction of the people who have read her books.
I would go so far as to say that for the most part readers do not consider Harry Potter to be of the fantasy genre, but rather just a popular children's book. Such a classification will not really encourage people to read fantasy.
Vox
#52 Guest_Baeraad_*
Posted 21 April 2006 - 05:55 PM
Why are HP so popular? Well, I've thought about it, and I've come up with an answer. Said answer is sort of cynical and resonates strongly with my very personal worldview, which has a great deal of cranky bitterness in it. You have been warned.
Harry Potter is so popular because it is exactly what people today wants. The average person is bored with the world, so HP takes the reader to a magical world - but because the average person also doesn't want anything to actually change, because that would force him to deal with a different enviroment, and that's a hassle, so therefore, the new, magical world is really exactly the same as the usual one. It's flashier and faster-moving, but people act exactly the same, and everything that exists in the scientifical world has a magical equivalent. The change from mundane to magical is completely without significance - the only thing that happens is that the colours get a bit brighter. It's the answer to the prayer of everyone who is too lacklustre to make the best of the world as it is, and too chicken to accept any change.
The morality behind this hollow magic must, of course, be similarily attuned to the dull spirit of our age. So "virtue" is defined as wanting nothing from life other than a boring job, a spouse and a bunch of children, because that's the only things our society approves of anyone wanting. Anyone who wants fame, money or power are by definition evil, and deserve at best condescension from more virtious people, at worst a quick death. Rowling praises the heroism of complete mediocrity.
Why is it so popular? Because Rowling has spent a great deal of effort and ingenuity (I don't deny that she is capable of both) in creating a world and a story that are completely bland, completely inoffensive to our current prejudices. She tells people exactly what they want to hear, she shows them exactly what they want to see, and she never ever includes anything that might make anyone upset.
Finally, a disclaimer - anyone subscribing to this forum clearly appreciates a book that challenges them. I am not in any way, shape or form saying that anyone here enjoys HP for the reasons I have stated. You enjoy them for other reasons, I'm sure. What I'm saying is that this is why the books are "so popular," why such a vast number of people, ones that are otherwise allergic to fantasy or even to literature in general, love the books, why HP has become such a powerful influence.
I would claim _that_ is because Harry Potter is the perfect posterboy for our time. (*grins wryly*) Depressing, isn't it?
Harry Potter is so popular because it is exactly what people today wants. The average person is bored with the world, so HP takes the reader to a magical world - but because the average person also doesn't want anything to actually change, because that would force him to deal with a different enviroment, and that's a hassle, so therefore, the new, magical world is really exactly the same as the usual one. It's flashier and faster-moving, but people act exactly the same, and everything that exists in the scientifical world has a magical equivalent. The change from mundane to magical is completely without significance - the only thing that happens is that the colours get a bit brighter. It's the answer to the prayer of everyone who is too lacklustre to make the best of the world as it is, and too chicken to accept any change.
The morality behind this hollow magic must, of course, be similarily attuned to the dull spirit of our age. So "virtue" is defined as wanting nothing from life other than a boring job, a spouse and a bunch of children, because that's the only things our society approves of anyone wanting. Anyone who wants fame, money or power are by definition evil, and deserve at best condescension from more virtious people, at worst a quick death. Rowling praises the heroism of complete mediocrity.
Why is it so popular? Because Rowling has spent a great deal of effort and ingenuity (I don't deny that she is capable of both) in creating a world and a story that are completely bland, completely inoffensive to our current prejudices. She tells people exactly what they want to hear, she shows them exactly what they want to see, and she never ever includes anything that might make anyone upset.
Finally, a disclaimer - anyone subscribing to this forum clearly appreciates a book that challenges them. I am not in any way, shape or form saying that anyone here enjoys HP for the reasons I have stated. You enjoy them for other reasons, I'm sure. What I'm saying is that this is why the books are "so popular," why such a vast number of people, ones that are otherwise allergic to fantasy or even to literature in general, love the books, why HP has become such a powerful influence.
I would claim _that_ is because Harry Potter is the perfect posterboy for our time. (*grins wryly*) Depressing, isn't it?
#53
Astra
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Posted 21 April 2006 - 06:02 PM
Baeraad said:
Anyone who wants fame, money or power are by definition evil?
I agree with this one.
Only Two Things Are Infinite, The Universe and Human Stupidity, and I'm Not Sure About The Former.
Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein
#54 Guest_Fool_*
Posted 21 April 2006 - 06:41 PM
Quote
Anyone who wants fame, money or power are by definition evil, and deserve at best condescension from more virtious people, at worst a quick death.
What? The whole consumer culture is based on making people believe that everyone can be rich and famous and whatnot. Just look at all the reality shows and all the people queueing up for them wanting their 2 minutes of fame. Or just watch Fight Club. That sums it up nicely.
Tyler Durden:
Quote
We've all been raised on television to believe that one day we'd all be millionaires, and movie gods, and rock stars. But we won't. And we're slowly learning that fact.
#55
Sir Thursday
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Posted 23 April 2006 - 02:15 PM
But surely the cult of celebrity is as a consequence of the realization that there is no way for the "average person" to become famous? I would contest that the people on reality shows are normal; I should have thought they were vetted to find the 'interesting ones'. That's what makes good viewing figures after all...
Vox
Vox
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#56 Guest_Fool_*
Posted 24 April 2006 - 11:32 AM
A lot of people that became famous through big brother seemed pretty average to me. But even if they are special there a lots and lots of average people queuing to get in. Just like there are lots of average people participating in star search and those kind of shows.
But my point was that most people would like to be famous or rich and its not considered evil.
And the thing about harry potter is that he is in some ways average but he does become famous. I dont see how rowling promotes mediocrity at all.
But my point was that most people would like to be famous or rich and its not considered evil.
And the thing about harry potter is that he is in some ways average but he does become famous. I dont see how rowling promotes mediocrity at all.
#57 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 24 April 2006 - 02:07 PM
He isn't mediocre, he got rid of Voldemort as a baby and is regarded by the magical world as something special. Sometimes he feels like an outcast, understood by no one, him against the world. It's a feeling many kids go through because of hormones and puberty. I'm special and alone, that's what makes HP so recognizable and popular.
#58
Astra
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Posted 25 April 2006 - 12:07 AM
It depends on how a particular person has become rich or famous.
For example:
Why Einstein has become famous? Because he wanted fame or because he was outstandingly smart and was doing what he was supposed to do and being famous is a byproduct?
Most politicians, celebrities, etc., are doing everything with the only one goal: to be famous and rich and this is an evil trait of human char in my opinion because somewhere on the road they tread upon corpses of others. Because in order to be rich and famous they betray, lie and do other not so nice things. Well that's IMHO.
P.S. Sorry fot Off topic.
For example:
Why Einstein has become famous? Because he wanted fame or because he was outstandingly smart and was doing what he was supposed to do and being famous is a byproduct?
Most politicians, celebrities, etc., are doing everything with the only one goal: to be famous and rich and this is an evil trait of human char in my opinion because somewhere on the road they tread upon corpses of others. Because in order to be rich and famous they betray, lie and do other not so nice things. Well that's IMHO.
P.S. Sorry fot Off topic.
Only Two Things Are Infinite, The Universe and Human Stupidity, and I'm Not Sure About The Former.
Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein
#59 Guest_Danyah_*
Posted 25 April 2006 - 08:38 AM
That's one for the "Will humans ever get it together" thread, but you walked away from that one.
#60
Astra
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Posted 25 April 2006 - 09:05 AM
Danyah said:
That's one for the "Will humans ever get it together" thread, but you walked away from that one.
I did, didn't I?
Only Two Things Are Infinite, The Universe and Human Stupidity, and I'm Not Sure About The Former.
Albert Einstein
Albert Einstein
