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a hundred years change a lot.. If they did not depend on 7cities then, they may now. Or perhaps they trade a lot of their food from 7 cities?
Laseen: An over-rated lier!
#22
Illuyankas 
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 12:24 AM
Besides, stability creates growth - after a century of relative peace, the Empire will need a lot more food for all the new mouths.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#23
High Marshal Flit
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 02:03 AM
Lasseen is from a Napan royal house, i wonder if that creates any sense of loyalty to Korbolo b/c if I'm remembering right he was/is Napan also, I don't know another layer?
#24
GingerBreadMan
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 04:15 AM
Doubtful, She doesnt seem like the type who is loyal simply because of her bloodline. In fact she doesnt seem like a very loyal person in any context, she killed her lover and mentor, which doesnt show too much loyalty or sentimentality. I still think shes doing something behind the scenes, she cant be as stupid as she appears in BH. Im not saying shes a female QB,Kellanved,Kruppe, but she has to have some brains....BTW Why are all the geniouses men? Who knows, maybe she is the female genious after all.
#25
Orfantal
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 09:51 AM
Red_orbiT said:
Still, she seems a cold and loveless person, not one I would like to have as an empress. BUT- I wouldn't underestimate her if I were me. Wich I am. She can still throw a surprise up I think.
And... with this writer, I don't think we have any idea what is going on yet
And... with this writer, I don't think we have any idea what is going on yet
Ha LMAO at this ... that seems a pretty good description of Tavore as well and we all seem pretty content with her abilities and credentials as potential Empress or possibly something more.
I do think that there will be more disclosed about Laseen, she seems to have been a top class assassin, she must also have been pretty organised and efficient to have set up the Claw to rival Dancer's Talons and ultimately take them out, and to establish herslef as Empress. I think there will be more to come out about her and her situation. What does interest me though is Mallick Rel, and just how powerful he may be, and why.
#26
Set'alahd Crool
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 01:49 PM
Rel is very powerful. He uses high ruse, which Quck said is the rarest and most difficult of warrens to master, and his access to it comes from Mael (meaning otataral won't stop him)l, who apparently doesn't want to get involved in the War - or anything, bar Tehol and his schemes - so isn't paying attention to his priests.
#27
Orfantal
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 02:04 PM
Yeah .. wonder whether he was also the one using Mockra around the city. Bemusing minds and creating confusion, altering people's thoughts would sit very well with our perception of his character. Otherwise the question is who was it?
As to High Ruse, I'll have to check back on HOC for QB's quote because I thought he also said there hadn't been a human practitioner for thousands of years.. although I may be wrong.
As to High Ruse, I'll have to check back on HOC for QB's quote because I thought he also said there hadn't been a human practitioner for thousands of years.. although I may be wrong.
#28
Red_orbiT
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 06:09 PM
@orfantal
I think there's a huge difference between tavore and laseen... they are both very drawn back and secret about their opinions, so I try to judge them on their actions. Their actions makes sure that I would be pretty happy with Tavore as an empress, but not Laseen at all. But of course, I could have misjudged them...
@the food issue
The roman empire at it's prime was heavy reliant on food from northern africa, the food from northern africa was sheap enough that it was pointless to run farms in Italy. Eventually, when the empire collapsed, there was famine because of this. Even though Italy was very rich farmland that could supply large populations. As the situation did occur in our reality, I find it rather believable.
I think there's a huge difference between tavore and laseen... they are both very drawn back and secret about their opinions, so I try to judge them on their actions. Their actions makes sure that I would be pretty happy with Tavore as an empress, but not Laseen at all. But of course, I could have misjudged them...
@the food issue
The roman empire at it's prime was heavy reliant on food from northern africa, the food from northern africa was sheap enough that it was pointless to run farms in Italy. Eventually, when the empire collapsed, there was famine because of this. Even though Italy was very rich farmland that could supply large populations. As the situation did occur in our reality, I find it rather believable.
#29
Orfantal
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 07:10 PM
@Red orbiT
well I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I'm not sure there's that much of a difference betweeen their personalities. It's all too easy to be drawn in and "like" Tavore because she seems to be on the same side as the goodies, ie those characters we like, but if we judged her in isolation I'm not sure we'd be quite so generous. I haven't forgotten how she treated Felisin, who I had a lot of sympathy for. Equally it's easy to denigrate Laseen, she's taken over the Empire from two characters we're all interested in, appears to have been trying to kill some of our favourites and now seems powerless to act. Just don't think it's going to end up quite that straight forward and I think it's all too easy to underestimate her.
On the food side I agree with you totally that it's a believable and viable scenario, and there are clear historical examples.
well I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I'm not sure there's that much of a difference betweeen their personalities. It's all too easy to be drawn in and "like" Tavore because she seems to be on the same side as the goodies, ie those characters we like, but if we judged her in isolation I'm not sure we'd be quite so generous. I haven't forgotten how she treated Felisin, who I had a lot of sympathy for. Equally it's easy to denigrate Laseen, she's taken over the Empire from two characters we're all interested in, appears to have been trying to kill some of our favourites and now seems powerless to act. Just don't think it's going to end up quite that straight forward and I think it's all too easy to underestimate her.
On the food side I agree with you totally that it's a believable and viable scenario, and there are clear historical examples.
#30
Red_orbiT
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Posted 22 March 2006 - 08:13 PM
@orfantal
I agree with most things you say, but I think it is possible to see a sympathetic side with tavore. I don't like how she treated Felisin either, but she was in a situation where she could choose between that or having the entire family killed. And what happened was not what she intended(she did send a bodyguard along). I'm not trying to say that she's some sort of an angel, just that she seems much more sympathetic than Laseen.
When it comes to Laseen, I absolutely agree that it's very easy to underestimate her, and I don't think this is the end of her at all. She's probably not even really in trouble.
Anyway, both of these characters are really hard to evaluate because they never tell anything about themselves. Never. It's quite possible that I'm totally wrong and it's the other way round, Laseen could be really nice and Tavore really evil, but it's hard to know.
I agree with most things you say, but I think it is possible to see a sympathetic side with tavore. I don't like how she treated Felisin either, but she was in a situation where she could choose between that or having the entire family killed. And what happened was not what she intended(she did send a bodyguard along). I'm not trying to say that she's some sort of an angel, just that she seems much more sympathetic than Laseen.
When it comes to Laseen, I absolutely agree that it's very easy to underestimate her, and I don't think this is the end of her at all. She's probably not even really in trouble.
Anyway, both of these characters are really hard to evaluate because they never tell anything about themselves. Never. It's quite possible that I'm totally wrong and it's the other way round, Laseen could be really nice and Tavore really evil, but it's hard to know.
#31 Guest_AmBeth_*
Posted 23 March 2006 - 11:04 AM
I'm not sure where all these opinions of Laseen being a good ruler have come from (except one comment by Kalam). She has always seemed to me to be someone out of her depth at ruling the empire, and because of this has been doing anything and everything to consolidate and maintain her hold on power, especially if it errodes or dirties the memory of Emperor Kel'.
Yes she was undoubtable an excellent claw etc, but she got jealous and greedy and assumes everyone else is the same as her.
Yes she was undoubtable an excellent claw etc, but she got jealous and greedy and assumes everyone else is the same as her.
#32 Guest_Brick Tamland_*
Posted 23 March 2006 - 12:33 PM
Alright a bit of wild stab in the dark here but was Laseen ready to assume command of the empire? The ascension of Kellenved & Dancer forced her hand somewhat and then the disappearance of everyone of note from the Empire meant she was pretty much cut adrift with only Tayschren and a few others from the 'old guard.' Isn't it in DHG that someone mentions that Laseen has been left isolated not only through her own actions but also the loss of the others.
Since then she has lurched from one crisis to another without showing Kellenved's nous in stamping out rebellion or dealing with problems. Obviously she isn't plain old stupid as her manipulation of the Claw into a position of being able to wipe out the Talons suggests she is tactically astute and the plan to discredit the Wickans to gain access to their fertile soil was ruthless but maybe she is struggling under the weight of her own expectations.
There has to be more underneath with Laseen, she cannot be taken at face value and I can't imagine her losing all that cool detachment she showed at the start of GoTM, yes she is struggling but she hasn't become inept overnight!
SE clearly likes to weave a good tale with twists and turns a plenty and I think Laseen has a shaved knuckle in the hole... (for some reason I almost didn't type out the knuckle in the bit, but that would just be plain old rude)
Since then she has lurched from one crisis to another without showing Kellenved's nous in stamping out rebellion or dealing with problems. Obviously she isn't plain old stupid as her manipulation of the Claw into a position of being able to wipe out the Talons suggests she is tactically astute and the plan to discredit the Wickans to gain access to their fertile soil was ruthless but maybe she is struggling under the weight of her own expectations.
There has to be more underneath with Laseen, she cannot be taken at face value and I can't imagine her losing all that cool detachment she showed at the start of GoTM, yes she is struggling but she hasn't become inept overnight!
SE clearly likes to weave a good tale with twists and turns a plenty and I think Laseen has a shaved knuckle in the hole... (for some reason I almost didn't type out the knuckle in the bit, but that would just be plain old rude
)
#33
Whelp
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Posted 23 March 2006 - 01:04 PM
IMHO we are forgetting something: Laseen/Surly is of the Napan royal bloodline. If there is any similarity between the upbringing of royalty in MBotF and our history, I would say that she has a very thorough education on how to govern, so I would think she has good reasons for doing what she does...
#34
innokenti
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Posted 23 March 2006 - 01:18 PM
Royalty brought up to govern? Not consistently in our history.
@Brick, I think you're right in most of what you're saying - but it all comes down to her not being right for the job. She isn't an Empress, just desperately wants to be.
@Brick, I think you're right in most of what you're saying - but it all comes down to her not being right for the job. She isn't an Empress, just desperately wants to be.
#36
Monoch Ochem
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Posted 23 March 2006 - 02:27 PM
The woman is an idiot...plain and simple. Today, I'm not going to exhaust expletives in emphasising that. A few opinions:
Quick Ben did say that he didn't know of any current practitioners of Ruse in the Empire. This was in MoI where they discovered the Edur body. I don't think it's Elder in the sense of KG, KT, KE, SD or even KL...but maybe in the sense of Tellann? I'm inclined to speculate that Ruse can defy otataral but I can't substantiate that with facts. Regardless, I think Mallick Rel practicing High Ruse is one seriously DANGEROUS adversary. Laseen's other problem in dispatching Rel is that he has infiltrated the Claw...they're no doubt watching her every move and I'm sure both mages AND the unsure loyalties within the Claw make her pretty nervous.
But what I can't fathom is this: if she has a shred of sense, how could she not know about Rel's betrayal? How could she risk imprisoning Rel and Korbolo Dom? Why not have them killed on the spot? Surely she has the means by which she could see the extent of their power. I believe she did. Yet she invited them to come sit right under her *ss in the heart of the Empire???
Kellanved was mad...still is. But mental insanity and mental incapacity are VERY different things. Shadowthrone's got ....well, 'issues'. Laseen is stupid.
The Wickan Pogrom is more idiocy. Untenable. May she unleash hell upon the Malazan Empire with that stupor. Imagine, IMMEDIATELY after the rebellion of Seven Cities, she invites more strife and division within the Empire?? Can I just ask: do we REALLY believe the Wickans would have been THAT unreasonable given the expediency of a starving Empire? I think the stupid b*tch is doing it all because she's now trapped by her stupidity in falling prey to Rel and Dom....they want to act out their grudges and she's scared...possibly even powerless to stop them. Why? Someone like her, steeped and conceived in treachery, cannot find the noble way to deal with Rel and Dom. Thanks to her own actions, she has no friends to call upon.
It's all selfishness. This isn't about the Empire. Let's face facts: as Amirebram said at the beginning, she's only found excuses ex post facto to disguise her incompetences. The dissguise? To say it was done for the Empire. Empire my *ss! She basically said it to Tavore....treason was to disobey her...not betray the Empire. This is about her. It's always been. What she's caught up in now is going to see murder and genocide exacted on a part of the very Empire she wishes to preserve??? That make sense?????
She's a greedy coward. Her greatest problem now is that there are 2 other greedy birds in the nest that got in beyond her guard. Feel sorry for her? I tell you what, this puts me in the best frame of mind to read the rest of SE's planned tragedies. I no longer have the interests of the Malazan Empire at heart. They turned on the Wickans with their sewage-stuffed Empress....let it all go to pieces...like Lether. This time, I'll not weep for any Ceda that falls. If Tayschrenn takes few spears up the *ss then too bad. He should have seen what that idiot woman was doing. He and Shadowthrone better get what they're planning on the move soon.
Quick Ben did say that he didn't know of any current practitioners of Ruse in the Empire. This was in MoI where they discovered the Edur body. I don't think it's Elder in the sense of KG, KT, KE, SD or even KL...but maybe in the sense of Tellann? I'm inclined to speculate that Ruse can defy otataral but I can't substantiate that with facts. Regardless, I think Mallick Rel practicing High Ruse is one seriously DANGEROUS adversary. Laseen's other problem in dispatching Rel is that he has infiltrated the Claw...they're no doubt watching her every move and I'm sure both mages AND the unsure loyalties within the Claw make her pretty nervous.
But what I can't fathom is this: if she has a shred of sense, how could she not know about Rel's betrayal? How could she risk imprisoning Rel and Korbolo Dom? Why not have them killed on the spot? Surely she has the means by which she could see the extent of their power. I believe she did. Yet she invited them to come sit right under her *ss in the heart of the Empire???
Kellanved was mad...still is. But mental insanity and mental incapacity are VERY different things. Shadowthrone's got ....well, 'issues'. Laseen is stupid.
The Wickan Pogrom is more idiocy. Untenable. May she unleash hell upon the Malazan Empire with that stupor. Imagine, IMMEDIATELY after the rebellion of Seven Cities, she invites more strife and division within the Empire?? Can I just ask: do we REALLY believe the Wickans would have been THAT unreasonable given the expediency of a starving Empire? I think the stupid b*tch is doing it all because she's now trapped by her stupidity in falling prey to Rel and Dom....they want to act out their grudges and she's scared...possibly even powerless to stop them. Why? Someone like her, steeped and conceived in treachery, cannot find the noble way to deal with Rel and Dom. Thanks to her own actions, she has no friends to call upon.
It's all selfishness. This isn't about the Empire. Let's face facts: as Amirebram said at the beginning, she's only found excuses ex post facto to disguise her incompetences. The dissguise? To say it was done for the Empire. Empire my *ss! She basically said it to Tavore....treason was to disobey her...not betray the Empire. This is about her. It's always been. What she's caught up in now is going to see murder and genocide exacted on a part of the very Empire she wishes to preserve??? That make sense?????
She's a greedy coward. Her greatest problem now is that there are 2 other greedy birds in the nest that got in beyond her guard. Feel sorry for her? I tell you what, this puts me in the best frame of mind to read the rest of SE's planned tragedies. I no longer have the interests of the Malazan Empire at heart. They turned on the Wickans with their sewage-stuffed Empress....let it all go to pieces...like Lether. This time, I'll not weep for any Ceda that falls. If Tayschrenn takes few spears up the *ss then too bad. He should have seen what that idiot woman was doing. He and Shadowthrone better get what they're planning on the move soon.
"We greet you Jaghut."
#37
Illuyankas
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Posted 23 March 2006 - 03:07 PM
Monoch Ochem said:
The woman is an idiot...plain and simple. Today, I'm not going to exhaust expletives in emphasising that. A few opinions:
Quick Ben did say that he didn't know of any current practitioners of Ruse in the Empire. This was in MoI where they discovered the Edur body. I don't think it's Elder in the sense of KG, KT, KE, SD or even KL...but maybe in the sense of Tellann? I'm inclined to speculate that Ruse can defy otataral but I can't substantiate that with facts. Regardless, I think Mallick Rel practicing High Ruse is one seriously DANGEROUS adversary. Laseen's other problem in dispatching Rel is that he has infiltrated the Claw...they're no doubt watching her every move and I'm sure both mages AND the unsure loyalties within the Claw make her pretty nervous.
But what I can't fathom is this: if she has a shred of sense, how could she not know about Rel's betrayal? How could she risk imprisoning Rel and Korbolo Dom? Why not have them killed on the spot? Surely she has the means by which she could see the extent of their power. I believe she did. Yet she invited them to come sit right under her *ss in the heart of the Empire???
Kellanved was mad...still is. But mental insanity and mental incapacity are VERY different things. Shadowthrone's got ....well, 'issues'. Laseen is stupid.
The Wickan Pogrom is more idiocy. Untenable. May she unleash hell upon the Malazan Empire with that stupor. Imagine, IMMEDIATELY after the rebellion of Seven Cities, she invites more strife and division within the Empire?? Can I just ask: do we REALLY believe the Wickans would have been THAT unreasonable given the expediency of a starving Empire? I think the stupid b*tch is doing it all because she's now trapped by her stupidity in falling prey to Rel and Dom....they want to act out their grudges and she's scared...possibly even powerless to stop them. Why? Someone like her, steeped and conceived in treachery, cannot find the noble way to deal with Rel and Dom. Thanks to her own actions, she has no friends to call upon.
It's all selfishness. This isn't about the Empire. Let's face facts: as Amirebram said at the beginning, she's only found excuses ex post facto to disguise her incompetences. The dissguise? To say it was done for the Empire. Empire my *ss! She basically said it to Tavore....treason was to disobey her...not betray the Empire. This is about her. It's always been. What she's caught up in now is going to see murder and genocide exacted on a part of the very Empire she wishes to preserve??? That make sense?????
She's a greedy coward. Her greatest problem now is that there are 2 other greedy birds in the nest that got in beyond her guard. Feel sorry for her? I tell you what, this puts me in the best frame of mind to read the rest of SE's planned tragedies. I no longer have the interests of the Malazan Empire at heart. They turned on the Wickans with their sewage-stuffed Empress....let it all go to pieces...like Lether. This time, I'll not weep for any Ceda that falls. If Tayschrenn takes few spears up the *ss then too bad. He should have seen what that idiot woman was doing. He and Shadowthrone better get what they're planning on the move soon.
Quick Ben did say that he didn't know of any current practitioners of Ruse in the Empire. This was in MoI where they discovered the Edur body. I don't think it's Elder in the sense of KG, KT, KE, SD or even KL...but maybe in the sense of Tellann? I'm inclined to speculate that Ruse can defy otataral but I can't substantiate that with facts. Regardless, I think Mallick Rel practicing High Ruse is one seriously DANGEROUS adversary. Laseen's other problem in dispatching Rel is that he has infiltrated the Claw...they're no doubt watching her every move and I'm sure both mages AND the unsure loyalties within the Claw make her pretty nervous.
But what I can't fathom is this: if she has a shred of sense, how could she not know about Rel's betrayal? How could she risk imprisoning Rel and Korbolo Dom? Why not have them killed on the spot? Surely she has the means by which she could see the extent of their power. I believe she did. Yet she invited them to come sit right under her *ss in the heart of the Empire???
Kellanved was mad...still is. But mental insanity and mental incapacity are VERY different things. Shadowthrone's got ....well, 'issues'. Laseen is stupid.
The Wickan Pogrom is more idiocy. Untenable. May she unleash hell upon the Malazan Empire with that stupor. Imagine, IMMEDIATELY after the rebellion of Seven Cities, she invites more strife and division within the Empire?? Can I just ask: do we REALLY believe the Wickans would have been THAT unreasonable given the expediency of a starving Empire? I think the stupid b*tch is doing it all because she's now trapped by her stupidity in falling prey to Rel and Dom....they want to act out their grudges and she's scared...possibly even powerless to stop them. Why? Someone like her, steeped and conceived in treachery, cannot find the noble way to deal with Rel and Dom. Thanks to her own actions, she has no friends to call upon.
It's all selfishness. This isn't about the Empire. Let's face facts: as Amirebram said at the beginning, she's only found excuses ex post facto to disguise her incompetences. The dissguise? To say it was done for the Empire. Empire my *ss! She basically said it to Tavore....treason was to disobey her...not betray the Empire. This is about her. It's always been. What she's caught up in now is going to see murder and genocide exacted on a part of the very Empire she wishes to preserve??? That make sense?????
She's a greedy coward. Her greatest problem now is that there are 2 other greedy birds in the nest that got in beyond her guard. Feel sorry for her? I tell you what, this puts me in the best frame of mind to read the rest of SE's planned tragedies. I no longer have the interests of the Malazan Empire at heart. They turned on the Wickans with their sewage-stuffed Empress....let it all go to pieces...like Lether. This time, I'll not weep for any Ceda that falls. If Tayschrenn takes few spears up the *ss then too bad. He should have seen what that idiot woman was doing. He and Shadowthrone better get what they're planning on the move soon.
Who's to say that he didn't see what she was doing? Seeing as Tay's was in almost at the ground floor during K and D's return (which Laseen CERTAINLY planned for, and equally certainly for beyond) and did his habitual nothing, it stands to reason that the event he is waiting for hasn't yet occurred. And nothing says that Laseen has anything to do with that...
I am glad that other people are joining my 'Laseen sucks' club, even if only after TBH, but the more the merrier.
Hello, soldiers, look at your mage, now back to me, now back at your mage, now back to me. Sadly, he isn’t me, but if he stopped being an unascended mortal and switched to Sole Spice, he could smell like he’s me. Look down, back up, where are you? You’re in a warren with the High Mage your cadre mage could smell like. What’s in your hand, back at me. I have it, it’s an acorn with two gates to that realm you love. Look again, the acorn is now otataral. Anything is possible when your mage smells like Sole Spice and not a Bole brother. I’m on a quorl.
#38
innokenti
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Posted 23 March 2006 - 03:20 PM
Oooh, do we get a sticker?
It also occurs to me that going against the Wickans is going to create even more problems since they are obviously going to fight, very hard, and Laseen has no armies to speak to use against them. By getting plebs involved, well they're just all going to... to die...
... Thus solving the hunger problem! Artful solution I guess. She can let loads of people be killed and be bothered by all that and then turn around and say that Rel and Dom were lying after all and are bastards and need to be executed.
No... no... really doesn't work, sorry, she still sucks. You have to give her points for trying to get Tavore and Kalam onside to deal with Rel and Dom (and it seems that from what we see she does want some way to do that) but she really doesn't know her audience, so she's hardly great.
It also occurs to me that going against the Wickans is going to create even more problems since they are obviously going to fight, very hard, and Laseen has no armies to speak to use against them. By getting plebs involved, well they're just all going to... to die...
... Thus solving the hunger problem! Artful solution I guess. She can let loads of people be killed and be bothered by all that and then turn around and say that Rel and Dom were lying after all and are bastards and need to be executed.
No... no... really doesn't work, sorry, she still sucks. You have to give her points for trying to get Tavore and Kalam onside to deal with Rel and Dom (and it seems that from what we see she does want some way to do that) but she really doesn't know her audience, so she's hardly great.
#39
Morgoth
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Posted 23 March 2006 - 03:39 PM
I have to disagree to some extent with the know her audience part. Kalam was obviously very very tempted to take up her offer. Wouldn't have taken much to tip the scales I think..
As to the other posts.. To think the wickans would give up the basis of their lifestyle to feed their conquerors strike me as absurd to say the least. Reasonable? This has nothing to do with whether they are reasonable or not. It just wont happen.
As to the other posts.. To think the wickans would give up the basis of their lifestyle to feed their conquerors strike me as absurd to say the least. Reasonable? This has nothing to do with whether they are reasonable or not. It just wont happen.
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To speak friendly, Even to the devil
It's decent in the first of gentlemen
To speak friendly, Even to the devil
#40
GingerBreadMan
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Posted 23 March 2006 - 03:54 PM
Im still of the opinion that she isnt that stupid...Look at everyone who was in Kellanveds little family, none of them are incompetent or stupid. Im not saying shes a great ruler, but I am saying something isnt as it appears. If Laseen is falling apart due to her selfishness and inability to trust, she would have whacked Rel and Dom by now. She was able to arrange the assasination of Dancer and Kellanved, and while she did fail, I dont see Rel or Dom to be nearly as dangerous as those two.
Bottom Line- Im not willing to simply say "Laseen is stupid, the end" I think something is going on behind the scenes and I think there is a reason for her behavior in BH
Bottom Line- Im not willing to simply say "Laseen is stupid, the end" I think something is going on behind the scenes and I think there is a reason for her behavior in BH
