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Having battled my way through the interminable concluding sequence of MoI, I'm not sure, but ... I think I'm more confused than when I started.
What was the bit about the Pannion Seer's sister? She seemed to come out of nowhere. What did she have to do with anything?
After the Seer is defeated, Ben speaks of having "righted a great wrong." What, exactly, was that? Simply defeating the Seer? Or was there something to do with the sister?
Why did the T'lan Imass stop fighting when Itkovian spoke to them? At first it seemed he had convinced them to stop struggling and die ... but then they continue. What's up with that?
What were Bauchelain and Korbal Broach doing in the story? We never find out exactly what they're up to, and their storyline could have been deleted without affecting the plot (I think).
What happened to the Mhybe? What, exactly, happened to Silverfox?
I could go on, but if anyone wants to proffer theories about these matters (or to simply point out that I am dense and/or didn't read carefully enough) it would be appreciated. It took me six weeks to read MoI and I'm not sure I want to read Erikson again soon, if ever. At his best his prose is marvelous and his world is wondrous weird, but too often it's simply too complicated (complicated, not complex) and confusing to be worth the effort of paying strict attention to over 1,100 pages of prose.
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So... what happened, anyway?
#2
Trotts 
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Posted 12 February 2006 - 08:02 AM
in the prologue of moi, we learn about a jaghut brother and sister pair. that brother is the seer, and the sister is the sister at the end. kilava (i think) thought the rent was a portal to omatose, so she put the two in there. of course the rent was actually a very bad place. that was the great wrong.
i dont quite remember why they stop fighting when itkovian comes, but i do know that silverfox takes a number of the t'lan with her to find the lost clans.
in the same way that burn is the malazan world, the mhybe was used to create a resting place for the t'lan imass. itkovian takes their memories and puts them into the world of the mhybes dreams
i dont quite remember why they stop fighting when itkovian comes, but i do know that silverfox takes a number of the t'lan with her to find the lost clans.
in the same way that burn is the malazan world, the mhybe was used to create a resting place for the t'lan imass. itkovian takes their memories and puts them into the world of the mhybes dreams
#3
Dolorous Menhir
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Posted 12 February 2006 - 12:53 PM
B & KB were in the book for two reasons, I think:
a) because they were great characters, with a pleasing dichotomy between evil (the cruelty, necromany, serial killing, just being outright Not Very Nice) and comic relief. Plus Bauchelain had a mean dress sense, sadly lacking in, well, pretty much every other character.
they were being introduced so the author could write several ridiculously over-priced side novels about them without people saying "who?" "where?" and "no way, I'm not paying that much! why don't you just mug me?"
I agree with Trotts about the other stuff.
a) because they were great characters, with a pleasing dichotomy between evil (the cruelty, necromany, serial killing, just being outright Not Very Nice) and comic relief. Plus Bauchelain had a mean dress sense, sadly lacking in, well, pretty much every other character.
they were being introduced so the author could write several ridiculously over-priced side novels about them without people saying "who?" "where?" and "no way, I'm not paying that much! why don't you just mug me?" I agree with Trotts about the other stuff.
#4
Trotts
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Posted 12 February 2006 - 06:28 PM
ya, i dont know so much that broach and bauchlain have much to do with this story, but they are people travelling across the continent, so there are bound to be run ins.
god i want those over priced side novels!!!
god i want those over priced side novels!!!
#5
Folken
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Posted 12 February 2006 - 07:42 PM
Seer issue: Well the great wrong was the whole bit with him and his sister being trapped in the KCC warren. If it wasn't for Quick Ben, the sister would've continued to suffer.
The Mhybe: Plan's within Plan's sort of thing with her. K'Rul started this whole mess with the Imass and the Mhybe was his way of giving the Imass a home. She sleeps and dreams, and viola we have a relam for the Imass. Sort of like the Burn situation we have...although to be honest none of that truly makes any sense to me.
Silverfox: Not exactly sure what you mean by "what happened to her" but, they're off to Assail with the rest of the Imass. This to me atleast suggests we won't be hearing from them again, not so sure, as we know we're not visitng Assail in the novels written by Steven Erikson.
K&B: Well...you gotta love them lol. Sure the story wouldn't have changed much without them in the novel, but thats what makes the story more interesting. We know next to nothing of them, yet from all the indications we've had they know far too much of whats going on and thats interesting:D
As to your complaint about the complicated story...well not much to say there. Except things become less complex in Book 6 - The Bonehunters. Everything is leading up to the last 4 novels in the series and Book 6 is just the beginning. So if you get through to House of Chains and Midnight Tides, which I'm sure you'll love, things will make sense;) lol
The Mhybe: Plan's within Plan's sort of thing with her. K'Rul started this whole mess with the Imass and the Mhybe was his way of giving the Imass a home. She sleeps and dreams, and viola we have a relam for the Imass. Sort of like the Burn situation we have...although to be honest none of that truly makes any sense to me.
Silverfox: Not exactly sure what you mean by "what happened to her" but, they're off to Assail with the rest of the Imass. This to me atleast suggests we won't be hearing from them again, not so sure, as we know we're not visitng Assail in the novels written by Steven Erikson.
K&B: Well...you gotta love them lol. Sure the story wouldn't have changed much without them in the novel, but thats what makes the story more interesting. We know next to nothing of them, yet from all the indications we've had they know far too much of whats going on and thats interesting:D
As to your complaint about the complicated story...well not much to say there. Except things become less complex in Book 6 - The Bonehunters. Everything is leading up to the last 4 novels in the series and Book 6 is just the beginning. So if you get through to House of Chains and Midnight Tides, which I'm sure you'll love, things will make sense;) lol
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#6
garden_rake
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Posted 12 February 2006 - 09:15 PM
Trotts said:
ya, i dont know so much that broach and bauchlain have much to do with this story, but they are people travelling across the continent, so there are bound to be run ins.
god i want those over priced side novels!!!
god i want those over priced side novels!!!
you're damn right you do trotts my friend they are quality - well worth the money... believe me i know
just to add on the imass issue...... if you've carried unimaginable sadness and pain around for a couple of hundred thousand years, and the person supposed to free you from this just turned round and said 'eeeeer.... no' (silverfox), you wouldnt really be that bothered about yet another scrap if someone (itkovian) just claimed he could actually free you sharpish... you'd snap off his fingers!
#7 Guest_grrmfan100_*
Posted 12 February 2006 - 10:45 PM
Thanks for the input --- it's helpful to get other readers' perspectives.
I already bought one of those "over-priced" side novels, perhaps in wonderment that Steven Erikson can actually write something that's less than 900 pages in length.
BTW, I did enjoy MoI the most of the series so far, especially the first three-fourths of the story, culminating in the recapture of Capustan. That was some of Erikson's best writing ever. However, as the story moved to the denouement, where he tries to tie... most things together, it got more perplexing than ever.
I already bought one of those "over-priced" side novels, perhaps in wonderment that Steven Erikson can actually write something that's less than 900 pages in length.
BTW, I did enjoy MoI the most of the series so far, especially the first three-fourths of the story, culminating in the recapture of Capustan. That was some of Erikson's best writing ever. However, as the story moved to the denouement, where he tries to tie... most things together, it got more perplexing than ever.
#8
Tes'thesula
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Posted 12 February 2006 - 11:49 PM
just to tidy up the bit with the pannion's sister
...in the prolouge, kilava takes the two jaghut children to morn where she believes there is a rent to omtose phellack...howver the Rent is in fact a wound from the warren of chaos from when a KCCM matron tried to desperately harness the power of choas to fight off the short tails. And to seal a wound in a warren a soul is needed to put in place and basically this soul suffers forever...this was the great wrong done...Since only one soul is needed, the sister took the place of the matron who was previously there and the brother got taken in by the matron and twisted into the seer. The Sister was freed when the BB and co, used the finnest, which contained enough of the matron's power to constitute a soul was used to replace the sister's soul. her memories of the tortuous experiences were then wiped, and she was returned to her own kind in the form of her brother, the pannion
phew...longer than i expected...persumably missed something
...in the prolouge, kilava takes the two jaghut children to morn where she believes there is a rent to omtose phellack...howver the Rent is in fact a wound from the warren of chaos from when a KCCM matron tried to desperately harness the power of choas to fight off the short tails. And to seal a wound in a warren a soul is needed to put in place and basically this soul suffers forever...this was the great wrong done...Since only one soul is needed, the sister took the place of the matron who was previously there and the brother got taken in by the matron and twisted into the seer. The Sister was freed when the BB and co, used the finnest, which contained enough of the matron's power to constitute a soul was used to replace the sister's soul. her memories of the tortuous experiences were then wiped, and she was returned to her own kind in the form of her brother, the pannion
phew...longer than i expected...persumably missed something
#9 Guest_grrmfan100_*
Posted 13 February 2006 - 12:19 AM
That certainly clears things up ... although Erikson's concepts are so ... odd I sometimes have difficulty making sense out of them even when I can follow his train of thought.
Obviously I needed to read more carefully; but when a book is that long, I don't think it's unreasonable for the author to insert a few helpful bits of exposition to remind readers of what happened 800 - 900 pages earlier. Some authors, of course, go to the opposite extreme, which gets boring for more intelligent readers ... but Erikson's work would be more enjoyable if it didn't require multiple readings (or extremely close concentration) to puzzle out.
Obviously I needed to read more carefully; but when a book is that long, I don't think it's unreasonable for the author to insert a few helpful bits of exposition to remind readers of what happened 800 - 900 pages earlier. Some authors, of course, go to the opposite extreme, which gets boring for more intelligent readers ... but Erikson's work would be more enjoyable if it didn't require multiple readings (or extremely close concentration) to puzzle out.
#10 Guest_Merkur_*
Posted 13 February 2006 - 02:04 PM
Just one awesome riddle - sure - and that is the reason, i love it so much.
I think your questions were answered sound and good, but i like to add...
K+B were great characters, so that would be enough for me.
But there is the point of them binding the Bargest scarecrow Quick than stumbles upon. This gives Quick the chance to earn the trust of Barghast Elder Spirits and this leads to all sorts of consequences, like immunity against taint, barghasts as allies (which is winning Capustan), the opportinity for a solution of Burns burning, the Panninons problem...,
so quite an impact if you think of it.
Itkovians power as shield-anvil was it to take grief and sorrow from a dead soul, so when he offered to do so for the Tlan they were surely stunned. Wouldnt you be after 300000 years of endless suffering?
I think your questions were answered sound and good, but i like to add...
K+B were great characters, so that would be enough for me.
But there is the point of them binding the Bargest scarecrow Quick than stumbles upon. This gives Quick the chance to earn the trust of Barghast Elder Spirits and this leads to all sorts of consequences, like immunity against taint, barghasts as allies (which is winning Capustan), the opportinity for a solution of Burns burning, the Panninons problem...,
so quite an impact if you think of it.
Itkovians power as shield-anvil was it to take grief and sorrow from a dead soul, so when he offered to do so for the Tlan they were surely stunned. Wouldnt you be after 300000 years of endless suffering?
#11 Guest_Sonnyboy_*
Posted 13 February 2006 - 03:40 PM
Just wanted to add that I agree with grrmfan about the ending. I find the endings of Erikson's books (especially MoI) to be complicated to the point of being convoluted. By the time I get through the extremely dense lead up, I find myself unable to increase my concentration. After 900 pages, I want a resolution or a reward for my effort, not further complication. That's just me.
I'm a huge fan though...
I'm a huge fan though...
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