[zeeny]

Currently re-reading and stumbled upon the quote by the Ceda:

Quote

"And look - Saviour and Betrayer, they have coalesced. They are one and the same."

Made me think most definitely that the position is for Trull Sengar to fill in.

[Arkmam]

Good spotting. Sounds entirely possible.

[Folken]

Empty Hold does it not belong to the Humans now?

[stone monkey]

Could be Karsa.

[Imperial Historian]

This seems like just the place for my empty hold theory....

Ok from Feather Witches reading we know that in the empty hold the positions have become plural, and so every position is occupied by two people, and this has something to do with the "brothers", ie the Sengar brothers.

So my theory is that the two holds now represent the two paths the Letherii and the Edur can now take, so the empty hold is held by two people each representing one path, one the path of peace (peace isn't quite right, but i can't think of hwo to describe it), the other the path of the crippled god. Represented by the division between Rhulad and Trull

So on to the prophecy of Feather Witch.

The Watchers stand in place as if made of stone! Their faces are masks of horror

I'm not sure who would fit this position... any ideas? possibly the slaves FW and Udinass

The Mistresses dance with thwarted desire

We are told that Seren Pedac occupies the position of mistress by the tiste andii spirits, and I suspect Mayen occupies the other position.

So Mistress = Seren Pedac/Mayen

The Wanderers have broken through the ice and cold darkness comes with its deathly embrace

The wanderers are clearly the Jheck and the Andii spirits

The Walkers cannot halt in the growing torrent that pulls them ever onward

On the side of the CG Hull seems the logical person for this position, and with the symetry the one on the side for peace is likely either Brys or Tehol

The Saviours face one another and both are doomed, and in broken reflection so stand the Betrayers.

From the Ceda we also know that the Saviour and Betrayer are one and the same, so Rhulad is the saviour of the Edur as he leads them to greatness, but he is also the betrayer as he has given them to the service of the CG, and on the other hand Trull is the Saviour of the Edur as he prevented them from beign destroyed, but he is named a betrayer by Rhuald of the cause of edur greatness.

Saviour Trull/Rhulad
Betrayer Rhulad/Trull

So what do you think?

[Monoch Ochem]

Pretty cool IH. I wonder if FW isn't the other mistress instead of Mayen though. FW's thwarted desire was to be possessed by the wyval. Arguably, she also desired Udinaas, who has now left.

Everything else seems perfectly plausible...my only hesitation would be the Walkers. Perhaps these are the Edur?

As far as the Saviours go, Trull/Rhulad seem like very good candidates.

[Imperial Historian]

The walkers being Edur.... that's a possibility, that one was pretty tenuous.

I have it in my mind that Mayen is definitly the mistress... but yes FW is definitly a possibility.

[Blind]

Trull and Rhulad can be one pair of saviors/betrayers, but so can be Brys and the king. Brys almost saved his country, and he was doomed - because the king betrayed him at the last moment. The betrayers, the Emperor and the king, are both rulers, and thus stand in reflection to each other...

For Saviour/Betrayer I had also thought about Silchas Ruin when the Ceda speaks about them merging into one, because the one who was called a betrayer by the Edur becomes the saviour when the Azath dies. However, it doesn't make sense with Feather Witch's reading about the positions being plural - but perhaps the tiles can refer to different people in each reading.

[zeeny]

About Feather witch reading plural, my initial theory was that the hold does not represent the two paths for the Eldur, but that it represents the 2 "influences" that are disputing it - High House Shadow's claim & humans on one side - Eldurs on the other. After reading IH's post tho, I believe that his theory makes a LOT more sense.

Edit: Also I kinda disagree with some of the "nominations" you make, I'd have liked the positions to be split by race e.g. each title is held by one Letherii & one Eldur.

[Imperial Historian]

Initially I plumbed for a straight edur/letherii split as well, but I decided on others as it didn't quite fit with the prophecies, and the rhulad/trull symmetry which seemed to be there.

Most of the assignments to positions are not particularly informed, just my best guesses....

@Hetan

Yes the weight of Mayen's blessing seems to indicate that she is important in some way, and the reading seems to fit with Mayen more.

@Blind

My view of the betrayer/saviour thing being one and the same, is that on one side of the contestants for the empty throne person x is the betrayer and person y the saviour, and on the other side person x is the saviour and person y the betrayer.

I don't see diskananr and brys filling those positions, diskanar may be a betrayer in a sense... btu he can't equally be seen as a saviour.

Silchas Ruin was only ever betrayer in the peverted histories of the edur, so i don't see him being seen as a betrayer in the system of the holds...

[Monoch Ochem]

Oh yeah....forgot about Mayen's blessing....damn! It was powerful enough to withstand the Letheri attack. At the time I just thought it was an Edur thing...i.e., ANY Edur could have said something to that effect.