[Dutch]

Finishing up Red Tails by John B. Holway, according to the backside it was the official source for the George Lucas movie.

It's quite enjoyable and it gives another insight on what for me was just another Mustang outfit when I first saw a picture of a red tailed P-51 Mustang.

When I found out what the Tuskagee Airman was about after some googling I got interested on the history of the first African American fighter unit in WW2.

Next up probably will be Forge of Darkness.

[Baco Xtath]

Briar King, on 13 August 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

Baco Xtath, on 13 August 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Abyss, on 13 August 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Briar King, on 13 August 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

Does Market Forces and 13 take place in Kovacs setting?

MF no. 13 yes but earlier by a century or two.

I was under the impression that Market Forces and Thirte3n were set in the same future. There are similar corporation names in both - I think. I'd put MF at 2060, 13 at 2150, and Kovacs at 2300. Complete and utter legless, groundless, ignorant speculation on my part, but if I were asked by a random guy (or girl) on the street, that's what I'd tell them (it happens more often than you think).

Edit: And I'd put Steel and Cold at 21000 A.D. or so.

Holy shit the fantasy books have that much time passage inbetween? Shit I've really got to kick it in gear and start Woken Furies and buy Steel and Cold.

Well, that Kovac's world and that of A Land Fit for Heroes are even related is just hinted at. That time difference is wild speculation on my part; there's really no way to tell short of Richard Morgan just out and saying it.

This post has been edited by Baco Xtath: 13 August 2012 - 11:00 PM

[D'rek]

QuickTidal, on 13 August 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

D, on 13 August 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

::sigh:: why does the only female character have to be a 16-year old girl with trust issues getting perpetually smacked around...

Commenting on this 5 chapters in is a little silly...especially because of how strong Vin becomes. Not to mention she's the protagonist ffs.

Aside from that, most stories about most humans (not just girls) about people growing to realize great power begin with them getting smacked around as youths, and having trust issues.

See: Spiderman, Batman, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, Kvothe, Kip, King Arthur (from Whyte's series), Pug, Buffy, Paksenarrion, Sirantha Jax, Lessa, Any of GRRM's leads....need I go on?

It's a trope. It's not some nefarious ploy.

Why is commenting after 5 chapters silly? That's 13% of the book done already! And at the 13% mark, so far if you're a woman in this universe you have one of four options: {a} be one of the slave-women on a plantation (who bafflingly are the ones who do all the manual work in the slaves' homes in the evenings, even though they do the same amount of work as the men in the fields during the day), {b} be too good looking as a young plantation slave that you get kidnapped, raped and killed by the plantation owner, {c} be a prostitute, or {d} be the one girl who is part of a thieving crew because she's a good-luck charm but get repeatedly beaten by the crew boss (and no one cares).

Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of other supposed women in this universe, it just makes me sigh that this is what I get to see in the first 13%. I'm sure that, just like Darling, Kiska, Lessa, Sansa, Althea and others, after the auther has shown us Vin getting the snot beaten out of her, an experienced and wonderful man will come along to protect and teach her, giving her the opportunity to blossom into a fantastic Strong Woman, with all the career opportunities of the men in the universe. Awesome. Oh, but don't worry, because the fellow who comes along and helps her has been through hard times, too! After SHOWing us [female protaganist] getting beaten up repeatedly, we get TOLD the hardships of [male mentor] too. Wonderful.

Look, from the writing and plotting and setup so far, I'm sure this is going to be a wonderful book and I'll probably enjoy the hell out of it. There's just some parts that I find... tiresome. Hopefully they'll go away.

[worry]

You sure that's not your second time reading it?

[Abyss]

Kruppe, on 13 August 2012 - 07:05 PM, said:

I don't normally like to mention books here until I'm near the tail end... But I'm so immediately impressed with Brent Weeks' The Way of Shadows that I will be pretty shocked if I don't end up loving it and picking up the rest of the series.

Yes you should!
I really enjoyed the Shadows series and i thought it read esp well bsck to back.

Baco Xtath, on 13 August 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

Briar King, on 13 August 2012 - 09:11 PM, said:

Baco Xtath, on 13 August 2012 - 12:46 PM, said:

Abyss, on 13 August 2012 - 01:27 AM, said:

Briar King, on 13 August 2012 - 12:50 AM, said:

Does Market Forces and 13 take place in Kovacs setting?

MF no. 13 yes but earlier by a century or two.

I was under the impression that Market Forces and Thirte3n were set in the same future. There are similar corporation names in both - I think. I'd put MF at 2060, 13 at 2150, and Kovacs at 2300. Complete and utter legless, groundless, ignorant speculation on my part, but if I were asked by a random guy (or girl) on the street, that's what I'd tell them (it happens more often than you think).

Edit: And I'd put Steel and Cold at 21000 A.D. or so.

Holy shit the fantasy books have that much time passage inbetween? Shit I've really got to kick it in gear and start Woken Furies and buy Steel and Cold.

Well, that Kovac's world and that of A Land Fit for Heroes are even related is just hinted at. That time difference is wild speculation on my part; there's really no way to tell short of Richard Morgan just out and saying it.

MF is completely aside of the others and even had a meta moment when the protagonist reads AC.
It's also not nearly as good as the Kovacs books or LFH.

The link to TSR and TCC is majorly subtle.

D, on 14 August 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 13 August 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

D, on 13 August 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

::sigh:: why does the only female character have to be a 16-year old girl with trust issues getting perpetually smacked around...

Commenting on this 5 chapters in is a little silly...especially because of how strong Vin becomes. Not to mention she's the protagonist ffs.

Aside from that, most stories about most humans (not just girls) about people growing to realize great power begin with them getting smacked around as youths, and having trust issues.

See: Spiderman, Batman, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, Kvothe, Kip, King Arthur (from Whyte's series), Pug, Buffy, Paksenarrion, Sirantha Jax, Lessa, Any of GRRM's leads....need I go on?

It's a trope. It's not some nefarious ploy.

Why is commenting after 5 chapters silly? That's 13% of the book done already! And at the 13% mark, so far if you're a woman in this universe you have one of four options: {a} be one of the slave-women on a plantation (who bafflingly are the ones who do all the manual work in the slaves' homes in the evenings, even though they do the same amount of work as the men in the fields during the day), {b} be too good looking as a young plantation slave that you get kidnapped, raped and killed by the plantation owner, {c} be a prostitute, or {d} be the one girl who is part of a thieving crew because she's a good-luck charm but get repeatedly beaten by the crew boss (and no one cares).

Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of other supposed women in this universe, it just makes me sigh that this is what I get to see in the first 13%. I'm sure that, just like Darling, Kiska, Lessa, Sansa, Althea and others, after the auther has shown us Vin getting the snot beaten out of her, an experienced and wonderful man will come along to protect and teach her, giving her the opportunity to blossom into a fantastic Strong Woman, with all the career opportunities of the men in the universe. Awesome. Oh, but don't worry, because the fellow who comes along and helps her has been through hard times, too! After SHOWing us [female protaganist] getting beaten up repeatedly, we get TOLD the hardships of [male mentor] too. Wonderful.

Look, from the writing and plotting and setup so far, I'm sure this is going to be a wonderful book and I'll probably enjoy the hell out of it. There's just some parts that I find... tiresome. Hopefully they'll go away.

I haven't read MISTBORN yet but I'll mention that the female lead in Elantris subverts more than a few tropes.

[amphibian]

worrywort, on 14 August 2012 - 01:52 AM, said:

You sure that's not your second time reading it?

Hilariously right. Sanderson is a Mormon and it flavors his writing strongly in Mistborn and The Way of Kings. I haven't read Elantris yet, but he's a solid enough writer that I actually will do so, despite the teeth-gritting moments I run into. Those moments probably aren't the same as D'rek's, but they do overlap some.

[Abyss]

Primateus, on 13 August 2012 - 04:39 PM, said:

Forge of Darkness, obviously.

After that I figure either Butcher's Stormfront or The Black Company (because I never got around to finishing it the last time I started it)

STORMFRONT!!!

And then.....
The Dresdencrack... It growzez!!!!!!!!

[worry]

Haha you might not want to turn Storm Front into one word.

[JPK]

QuickTidal, on 13 August 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

The Incredible Kitsu, on 13 August 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

Passed 450 on TBP. It strikes me just how enjoyable Weeks works are without being super dense. Then, on top of it all Kip is just fun as hell to read. Such a great inner monologue.

Kip is a shitsnack, whiner most days. I loathed him for the majority of the first book.

He does have his whiny moments, but at the same time he's such an arrogant snarky little bastard. I just found his tone clicked well for me.
Finished TBP, btw, and now I'm 100 pages into Starship Troopers. I love Heinlein so so much.

[QuickTidal]

D, on 14 August 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

Why is commenting after 5 chapters silly? That's 13% of the book done already!

Do you truly wish me to answer this?

For the same reason commenting on Malazan tropes after GOTM would be misguided, and we've told about a thousand readers who did such a thing as that how silly it would be to do so. The same is true of this series which works best as a trilogy, and that includes assumptions about characters. One of the strongest and most powerful in the 2nd and 3rd books is a female in fact.

I'm reading PRINCE OF THORNS for example, and at 5 chapters in I wondered what sort of sadistic, reprehensible people the folks who told me to read it were...but after 60 pages I'm totally engrossed an can't put the bloody thing down (best read of 2011 that I'm sad I never got round to in 2011), and pretty much all the stuff I ASSUMED to know at the beginning... I didn't really. Thus I didn't yet comment on it.

That was all I was saying.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 August 2012 - 05:43 PM

[QuickTidal]

The Incredible Kitsu, on 14 August 2012 - 04:09 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 13 August 2012 - 12:49 PM, said:

The Incredible Kitsu, on 13 August 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

Passed 450 on TBP. It strikes me just how enjoyable Weeks works are without being super dense. Then, on top of it all Kip is just fun as hell to read. Such a great inner monologue.

Kip is a shitsnack, whiner most days. I loathed him for the majority of the first book.

He does have his whiny moments, but at the same time he's such an arrogant snarky little bastard. I just found his tone clicked well for me.

Agreed. And yeah I came around to him in the end, but it wasn't till the last few pages...and the more I think about it the more I think Weeks might have planned it that way.

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, on 14 August 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Do you truly wish me to answer this?

For the same reason commenting on Malazan tropes after GOTM would be misguided, and we've told about a thousand readers who did such a thing as that how silly it would be to do so. The same is true of this series which works best as a trilogy, and that includes assumptions about characters. One of the strongest and most powerful in the 2nd and 3rd books is a female in fact.

The thing is, she's absolutely dead on about what will happen to Vin. I don't think D'rek's auto-dismissing the entire book, however, this is a teeth-gritting moment for her. Vin doesn't subvert much tropes either.

I do think that D'rek is discounting the "ruled by an immortal, evil emperor for 5000 years" effect on the world of Mistborn a bit.

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 14 August 2012 - 06:01 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 14 August 2012 - 05:42 PM, said:

Do you truly wish me to answer this?

For the same reason commenting on Malazan tropes after GOTM would be misguided, and we've told about a thousand readers who did such a thing as that how silly it would be to do so. The same is true of this series which works best as a trilogy, and that includes assumptions about characters. One of the strongest and most powerful in the 2nd and 3rd books is a female in fact.

The thing is, she's absolutely dead on about what will happen to Vin. I don't think D'rek's auto-dismissing the entire book, however, this is a teeth-gritting moment for her. Vin doesn't subvert much tropes either.

I do think that D'rek is discounting the "ruled by an immortal, evil emperor for 5000 years" effect on the world of Mistborn a bit.

I agree that she's up (sort of)

Spoiler

though she's not more powerful than Kelsier in Mistborn, she does become MUCH more of a powerful figure later on and definitely moreso than Kelsier....and to be honest she is ALWAYS more powerful and stronger than Elend, her mate and leader of the city

on what happens to Vin, she's still looking at it through uninformed eyes...but Vin is not nearly as important as two other characters who share a much more equal male female ratio, which is more to the point for Book 2 and 3

Spoiler

Sazed and Tindwyl....the latter of which is one of the most powerful characters in the series for her influences on the protagonists....she's the Eleanor Of Aquitaine of Sanderson's world.

I'm trying to say that although there are some familiar tropes, that guessing things at this point even with Vin is kind of silly. To me anyways.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 14 August 2012 - 06:56 PM

[Abyss]

Finished Zefron's THE ANGEL'S GAME.
Didnt end as strong as i would have liked but still worth the read.

Picking at Rollins' Deep Fathom and Ringo's Vorpal Blade but really just killing time til i get my hands on FoD tomorrow.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 14 August 2012 - 08:13 PM, said:

Finished Zefron's THE ANGEL'S GAME.

I'll be curious how you like PRISONER, as I felt it was just the cream on the cake...so great!

[Orlion]

D, on 14 August 2012 - 01:42 AM, said:

QuickTidal, on 13 August 2012 - 04:20 PM, said:

D, on 13 August 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

::sigh:: why does the only female character have to be a 16-year old girl with trust issues getting perpetually smacked around...

Commenting on this 5 chapters in is a little silly...especially because of how strong Vin becomes. Not to mention she's the protagonist ffs.

Aside from that, most stories about most humans (not just girls) about people growing to realize great power begin with them getting smacked around as youths, and having trust issues.

See: Spiderman, Batman, Harry Potter, Luke Skywalker, Kvothe, Kip, King Arthur (from Whyte's series), Pug, Buffy, Paksenarrion, Sirantha Jax, Lessa, Any of GRRM's leads....need I go on?

It's a trope. It's not some nefarious ploy.

Why is commenting after 5 chapters silly? That's 13% of the book done already! And at the 13% mark, so far if you're a woman in this universe you have one of four options: {a} be one of the slave-women on a plantation (who bafflingly are the ones who do all the manual work in the slaves' homes in the evenings, even though they do the same amount of work as the men in the fields during the day), {b} be too good looking as a young plantation slave that you get kidnapped, raped and killed by the plantation owner, {c} be a prostitute, or {d} be the one girl who is part of a thieving crew because she's a good-luck charm but get repeatedly beaten by the crew boss (and no one cares).

Yes, I'm sure there are plenty of other supposed women in this universe, it just makes me sigh that this is what I get to see in the first 13%. I'm sure that, just like Darling, Kiska, Lessa, Sansa, Althea and others, after the auther has shown us Vin getting the snot beaten out of her, an experienced and wonderful man will come along to protect and teach her, giving her the opportunity to blossom into a fantastic Strong Woman, with all the career opportunities of the men in the universe. Awesome. Oh, but don't worry, because the fellow who comes along and helps her has been through hard times, too! After SHOWing us [female protaganist] getting beaten up repeatedly, we get TOLD the hardships of [male mentor] too. Wonderful.

Look, from the writing and plotting and setup so far, I'm sure this is going to be a wonderful book and I'll probably enjoy the hell out of it. There's just some parts that I find... tiresome. Hopefully they'll go away.

Sounds about right. And remember, that guy is a good guy because at the mere mention of rape, he gets enraged and justly slaughters the entirety of the nobility at the plantation (see prologue). I enjoyed reading Mistborn, but as you imply, Sanderson relies A LOT on generic fantasy tropes and character development short cuts. Are there gems hidden in there? Yes. But it's never going to blow my pants off as an example of progressing fantasy literature technique. But above all, it's enjoyable. I'll eventually get around to reading The Hero of Ages, but I want to read a few other books first.

[Salt-Man Z]

Halfway through The Keep, and am quite enjoying it.

I also just read Watchmen for the first time, and HOLY CRAP WAS THAT AMAZING.

[Macros]

day off work today with the cold.
sat down and read the prince of thorns.
I loved it, but my good Jorg is a ruthless, blood thirsty bastard.
Of his collection of cut throats there is very little that speaks of redeeming features.
In fact the majourity of the characters are horrid people.
But I still loved the journey the novel takes you on, I'd say I was a little slower than most in figuring out fully the setting but I can't wait to read the second already.

[Ukjent]

Read The hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy at the moment, and it's just as fucked up as I remember.

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 15 August 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

day off work today with the cold.
sat down and read the prince of thorns.
I loved it, but my good Jorg is a ruthless, blood thirsty bastard.
Of his collection of cut throats there is very little that speaks of redeeming features.
In fact the majourity of the characters are horrid people.
But I still loved the journey the novel takes you on, I'd say I was a little slower than most in figuring out fully the setting but I can't wait to read the second already.

I'm also currently reading it and having a similar experience. It's REALLY good. I think I may buy the sequel (which just came out) hardcover.