[teholbeddict]

Finally getting around to doing my re-read of Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising sequence. I decided to buy it again after discussing it in the first fantasy series thread. I haven't read it in about nineteen or twenty years (man do I feel old!). I'm on to the third book at the moment and have slightly mixed feelings about the series so far. I read book one Over Sea and Under Stone and thought meh, not great, not bad either. I kept wondering why I had loved the series when I first read it. Then I got onto book two, The Dark is Rising, and absolutely loved it. I tore through it and recognized everything I'd remembered enjoying about the series. Now I'm onto book three The Greenwitch, and have cooled off on it again. I've come to the conclusion that I'm not a fan of the books in the series that involve the Drew children, but that I love the books that deal more heavily with the battle between Light and Dark, and have more to do with the Old Ones. Overall though it's still a fantastic series, and Im glad I'm giving it a re-read. Nothing overly complicated or heavy obviously, but they do make for excellent quick reads. Plus I needed to replace my original set because two of the books had gone missing and the rest were falling apart. So it's a win win all around.

[Abyss]

Aptorian, on 20 June 2010 - 06:53 PM, said:

...If you promise me Oceans 11 I expect brilliant schemes within schemes, some kind of crazy elaborate long con with fun characters, witty dialogue and cool montages. Not a bunch of pampered thieves who get pawned by a superior mastermind and then spend the rest of the book reeling from one sucker punch after another.

This was my problem with the book too. I wanted more clever and less punchy stabby.

Quote

Also these fantasy worlds where magic is subject to monopoly and something you can not defend yourself against is one of my pet peeves.

This however, i have no problem with. I actually like how it's explained.

Quote

... it ultimately failed in realising its potential.

You might want to give RED SKIES a miss then.

masan, on 27 June 2010 - 10:48 PM, said:

Finished Woken Furies by Morgan and will definitely read everything else he's done as a result ! Good stuff.

AGREED!
And you're in for a treat. aside from MARKET FORCES, which is mediocre but was his first book and can be excused in light of everything else he's written.

masan, on 27 June 2010 - 11:16 PM, said:

...I will soldier on though as Achamian seems like a decent fella.

Aptorian, on 28 June 2010 - 05:26 AM, said:

I think it depends upon what kind of characters you like in your fiction.

Personally I thought Kelhus was awesome all through the books. It was the other character around him that sucked ass. The author didn't create any characters that could compete with Kellhus' intellect and skills. Still Acka and the Barbarian were cool.

The Series has one of my favorite magic systems.

Achamian and Cnaiur are two of my favourite fantasy characters ever. SO complex and flawed, but ultimately SO powerful, often because of those flaws. Each time one of them ultimately decides to act is one of the high points in the series.

Bauchelain the Evil, on 29 June 2010 - 08:27 AM, said:

Aptorian, on 28 June 2010 - 09:14 PM, said:

Dag, on 28 June 2010 - 07:45 PM, said:

Just finished "Iron Angel" and I think after this one I'm done with Campbell. His "Scar Night" was just about bearable to read, his "Iron Angel" is unbearably bad. Reading this book felt like chewing on a strip of old dry leather...

Giving China Mieville another try now...

Could you share what his faults are? I haven't read any of his work but I've heard a lot of good opinions of Scar Night.

Apt, while I don't think that Iron Angel was "unbearably bad" (that's the third book), I can understand Dag. The book was made up by three parts that barely had anything to do with each other and ended with a massive open ending that really annoyed me. However, IMO, a bunch of interesting characters, an excellent worldbuilding and some cool action scenes, saved the book for me.

I would recommend Scar Night, however, that was a really good book

I thought SCAR NIGHT was a totally fun read. Campbell does some BRILLIANT action scenes and great characters.

IRON ANGEL was not as good, but once you stop expecting SCAR NIGHT pt 2 it's readable. Interesting setting certainly. It's a bit too overtly setting up the 3rd book and I don't appreciate when an author does that so blatantly, I'll pick up the mmpb of GOD OF CLOCKS sooner or later.

teholbeddict, on 29 June 2010 - 03:09 PM, said:

Finally getting around to doing my re-read of Susan Cooper's Dark is Rising sequence. ...I've come to the conclusion that I'm not a fan of the books in the series that involve the Drew children, but that I love the books that deal more heavily with the battle between Light and Dark, and have more to do with the Old Ones. Overall though it's still a fantastic series, ...

Yeah i think you summarize my feelings. The Drews aren't as interesting as the other half of the series, but overall it's a strong work and the finale does tie both parts together nicely. I may revisit this some day.


Am currently reading Cook's SHADOWGAMES - Black Company bk 4(5 if you count Silver Spike... whatever). I'm vaccilating so far but engaged enough to keep reading. I have the next three sitting in the TRP and comments elsethread convinced me to get on with this series.

[Dag]

Aptorian, on 28 June 2010 - 09:14 PM, said:

Could you share what his faults are? I haven't read any of his work but I've heard a lot of good opinions of Scar Night.

I read "Scar Night" back when Zanth started a book club here, and as I stated back then, I found this book to be an OK fast-food snack, but not a feast I would keep in memory for very long. The main issues I had with the book are:

1) some nice ideas in there that IMO never really got developed or properly worked out;
2) mediocre writing style;
3) poorly done characterisation - the characters were more like rough sketches, and they didn't manage to develop into three-dimensional human beings (or three-dimensional angels, for that matter) by the end of the book (possible exceptions were Devon and Mr. Nettle in the first part of the book);
4) an uneven spread of focus throughout the book; e.g. a very well done and exciting fight between two female characters at one point stretching over pages and pages vs. a final battle that was narrated only vaguely and from a one-sided POV; also, the detailed description of Devon's laboratory vs. poorly sketched Ulcis' "underworld";
5) the rushed ending that soured the book even further for me.

Now, I already said back then that I would order the second book, since I was curious about where this whole thing might go, and I was hoping the second book might be better and avoid the problems the first book suffered from. But now after chewing on "Iron Angel" for the past two weeks, I must say I was disappointed. The issues I have with this book? See the list above. I can imagine how the vivid description of hell might appeal to some readers, but I was not overly impressed (I find that e.g. Michael Shea had done Hell already in a much better quality.) And the ending (as Bauchelain the Evil already said, a biiig cliffhanger) was rushed again, and one could really notice how the writing style deteriorates with every page nearing the end of the book - the sentences becoming short and simple, like the panting of a tired man.

I’m not trying here to discourage anyone from reading these books – as you can see from this thread, there are enough people who don’t share my opinion. But it is also not a book I would recommend. And I don’t think I will be ordering the sequel.

This post has been edited by Dag: 29 June 2010 - 08:54 PM

[The Seguleh 46th]

Just started "Empire in Black and Gold" (think that's the title's name anyhow...?) and so far i'm on the fence with it. Author seems to spoonfeed me information at times when i already pretty much think i know what is happening, so that's a little annoying. Yet he does create a very visual world and character populace. The whole insect "kinden" thing is a pretty sweet premise, as well as the fusion of technology with a relatively medieval world. Probably just been spoiled on Erikson, GRRM, and Cook for too long when it comes to being spoonfed info (or rather happily the lack thereof via those 3), so i'm trying hard not to hold it against this author too much for now.

This post has been edited by The Seguleh 46th: 30 June 2010 - 06:57 AM

[HoosierDaddy]

Empire in Black and Gold is a study in dichotomy of fantastic ideas merged with poor characterization. I'm waiting to check out the second book from the library.

[The Seguleh 46th]

H.D., on 30 June 2010 - 07:03 AM, said:

Empire in Black and Gold is a study in dichotomy of fantastic ideas merged with poor characterization. I'm waiting to check out the second book from the library.

I'm not real far in,

Spoiler

they just fought off the ambush in Helleron

so i'm giving it a long leash. Still, the characters are almost clildlike sometimes, but maybe they are supposed to be written in that way since they kinda are young moody types, i don't know. Gets annoying though after awhile. The adult characters do seem to be much better written though (so far anyways, IMO).

[champ]

The Seguleh 46th, on 30 June 2010 - 07:12 AM, said:

H.D., on 30 June 2010 - 07:03 AM, said:

Empire in Black and Gold is a study in dichotomy of fantastic ideas merged with poor characterization. I'm waiting to check out the second book from the library.

I'm not real far in,

Spoiler

they just fought off the ambush in Helleron

so i'm giving it a long leash. Still, the characters are almost clildlike sometimes, but maybe they are supposed to be written in that way since they kinda are young moody types, i don't know. Gets annoying though after awhile. The adult characters do seem to be much better written though (so far anyways, IMO).

I've sort of put reading Salute the Dark on hold half way through, entertaining enough i guess but not a book that keeps you hooked... reckon i will finish it and continue with the series, even if its just to see how it all turns out

[Morgoth]

The Seguleh 46th, on 30 June 2010 - 06:56 AM, said:

Just started "Empire in Black and Gold" (think that's the title's name anyhow...?) and so far i'm on the fence with it. Author seems to spoonfeed me information at times when i already pretty much think i know what is happening, so that's a little annoying. Yet he does create a very visual world and character populace. The whole insect "kinden" thing is a pretty sweet premise, as well as the fusion of technology with a relatively medieval world. Probably just been spoiled on Erikson, GRRM, and Cook for too long when it comes to being spoonfed info (or rather happily the lack thereof via those 3), so i'm trying hard not to hold it against this author too much for now.

Without going into a long, tiresome rant about this book for the god knows how many times, I'll simply say the series suck and do by no means get any better.

Read something worthwhile instead is my advice.

[acesn8s]

Just finished Return of the Crimson Guard, only one thing happened (near the end) which made me sit up and take notice. Now I'm on to Whitechapel Gods.

[Fist Gamet]

Dag, on 29 June 2010 - 08:51 PM, said:

Aptorian, on 28 June 2010 - 09:14 PM, said:

Could you share what his faults are? I haven't read any of his work but I've heard a lot of good opinions of Scar Night.

I read "Scar Night" back when Zanth started a book club here, and as I stated back then, I found this book to be an OK fast-food snack, but not a feast I would keep in memory for very long. The main issues I had with the book are:

1) some nice ideas in there that IMO never really got developed or properly worked out;
2) mediocre writing style;
3) poorly done characterisation - the characters were more like rough sketches, and they didn't manage to develop into three-dimensional human beings (or three-dimensional angels, for that matter) by the end of the book (possible exceptions were Devon and Mr. Nettle in the first part of the book);
4) an uneven spread of focus throughout the book; e.g. a very well done and exciting fight between two female characters at one point stretching over pages and pages vs. a final battle that was narrated only vaguely and from a one-sided POV; also, the detailed description of Devon's laboratory vs. poorly sketched Ulcis' "underworld";
5) the rushed ending that soured the book even further for me.

Now, I already said back then that I would order the second book, since I was curious about where this whole thing might go, and I was hoping the second book might be better and avoid the problems the first book suffered from. But now after chewing on "Iron Angel" for the past two weeks, I must say I was disappointed. The issues I have with this book? See the list above. I can imagine how the vivid description of hell might appeal to some readers, but I was not overly impressed (I find that e.g. Michael Shea had done Hell already in a much better quality.) And the ending (as Bauchelain the Evil already said, a biiig cliffhanger) was rushed again, and one could really notice how the writing style deteriorates with every page nearing the end of the book - the sentences becoming short and simple, like the panting of a tired man.

I’m not trying here to discourage anyone from reading these books – as you can see from this thread, there are enough people who don’t share my opinion. But it is also not a book I would recommend. And I don’t think I will be ordering the sequel.

Just thought I would mention that I agree with Dag on this one. I didn't even manage to get to the end of Scar Night as I just felt I was wasting time reading something so mediocre when I could be reading something great. I think my main problem was that I did not find it particularly well written. Okay, but, meh.

Anyway, now reading Shadow and Betrayal by Abraham. I kinda forced myself to ignore the whole "pose" issue and gave him the benefit of the doubt in that he is trying to convey the concept of a highly ritualised social structure (though it reads at first as the most unbelievably lazy writing you can imagine). Anyway, it's not too bad so far. There's not a whole lot going on but the story has a feel of gathering pace, there are some neat and original ideas and he has spent a lot of time working on the characterisation, imho, and it shows.

[Slow Ben]

Read all 4 Dark Tower graphic novels last night. Good stuff, cant wait for the Battle of Jericho Hill.

Cant decide if i'm moving on to Wolves of the Calla or start something new. Thinking of trying some Meiville, everyone on here talks about how good it is.

[Abyss]

H.D., on 30 June 2010 - 07:03 AM, said:

Empire in Black and Gold is a study in dichotomy of fantastic ideas merged with poor characterization. ...

See also Farland's RUNELORDS series.

acesn8s, on 30 June 2010 - 12:46 PM, said:

...Now I'm on to Whitechapel Gods.

Enjoy! I really liked that book.

Slow Ben, on 30 June 2010 - 02:06 PM, said:

... Thinking of trying some Meiville, everyone on here talks about how good it is.

Opinions vary somewhat, but ithought PERDIDO STREET STATION was a solid read and THE SCAR remains one of my favourite neo-fantasy/sf/newweird/whatever books.


Cook's SHADOWGAMES is picking up. I know some people say the series actually starts to fall apart here but in some ways i'm liking this more than the first three. four. whatever.

[Salt-Man Z]

Abyss, on 30 June 2010 - 02:23 PM, said:

acesn8s, on 30 June 2010 - 12:46 PM, said:

...Now I'm on to Whitechapel Gods.

Enjoy! I really liked that book.

I finished that last week. It was really good, though frustratingly vague at times. But I think that was part of the charm; Peters gave you just enough information to follow along with the plot, and nothing more. But the atmosphere and the characters were memorable.

Abyss, on 30 June 2010 - 02:23 PM, said:

Cook's SHADOWGAMES is picking up. I know some people say the series actually starts to fall apart here but in some ways i'm liking this more than the first three. four. whatever.

I personally enjoyed the final 6-book arc more than the original trilogy. The trilogy jumped around a lot, while the Glittering Stone story is more drawn out; it reads a lot more like epic fantasy.

Salt-Man Z, on 28 June 2010 - 09:11 PM, said:

Halfway through Jack Vance's To Live Forever. It's...interesting. The main character is a nice enough guy, but he's also a murderous, conniving bastard. And he's the only POV character, so it's difficult to feel any involvement in the story, because I really think he should die.

As a follow-up: I finished this last night. It was much more enjoyable once I realized that it was a story about the downfall of a society that rations out immortality to its citizens, with the protagonist as the catalyst, not the hero. And it's absolutely not a love story, contrary to the blurb on the back; whoever wrote that apparently didn't read the book.

[The Seguleh 46th]

Abyss, on 30 June 2010 - 02:23 PM, said:

Cook's SHADOWGAMES is picking up. I know some people say the series actually starts to fall apart here but in some ways i'm liking this more than the first three. four. whatever.

I really liked the turn this series took here in the south. Was the first series i read that really brought the soldier POV aspect to the forefront instead of the classic hero/villian showdown blah stuff. Every book was great, the second one (name is eluding me at the moment, based in Juniper anyway...) especially, sorta had that medieval mafia sorta flavor!

[The Seguleh 46th]

Morgoth, on 30 June 2010 - 07:57 AM, said:

The Seguleh 46th, on 30 June 2010 - 06:56 AM, said:

Just started "Empire in Black and Gold" (think that's the title's name anyhow...?) and so far i'm on the fence with it. Author seems to spoonfeed me information at times when i already pretty much think i know what is happening, so that's a little annoying. Yet he does create a very visual world and character populace. The whole insect "kinden" thing is a pretty sweet premise, as well as the fusion of technology with a relatively medieval world. Probably just been spoiled on Erikson, GRRM, and Cook for too long when it comes to being spoonfed info (or rather happily the lack thereof via those 3), so i'm trying hard not to hold it against this author too much for now.

Without going into a long, tiresome rant about this book for the god knows how many times, I'll simply say the series suck and do by no means get any better.

Read something worthwhile instead is my advice.

Hehe! I'm gonna go ahead and at least finish the book, but i can't say that you're far off from what i feel at this point. Its just that right when i feel like closing the book and asking myself why the hell i spent 16 bucks on it, that something happens to draw me back in. Then the young characters speak. Then author explains everything that they just said like i don't have a clue. Get ready to close book again, and something fun happens again. Older characters speak and i stick to pages. Enter young bastards again and a grimace froms on my face. Repeat. Still, has the feel of a first-time author, so i'm gonna at least finish the book and see how he pulls it off before ultimately deciding.

[stone monkey]

Just finished The Raw Shark Texts

Liked:

The conceptual Shark is a great idea. And the meta-textual stuff is fun - especially the flipbook shark attack...

Disliked:

The extended Jaws pastiche that the denoument turned into.

Overall: it was fun but nowhere near as clever as it seemed to think it was being. Which turned out to be a disappointment in the end. I was hoping for more.

[MTS]

After going to start it a little while back and being lured away by Dresden, I've now finally started Infinite Jest. Here's hoping it was worth the wait.

[lobo the wolfman]

Just started Henry Zou's Flesh and Iron.

Then on to Graham Mc'Neill's A Thousand Sons from the Horus Heresy series.

[murphy72]

Just finished Suzanne Collins The Hunger Game. Twenty-four kids between the ages of 12 and 16 all out to kill one another. The last one standing wins.

Now reading Feed by Mira Grant (aka Seanan McGuire). A well-written Zombie story.

[HoosierDaddy]

Starting Book 3 of the Long Price Quartet, An Autumn War. First two were good. Didn't blow me away, but solid reads.