[JPK]

You didn't quite get far enough to start seeing the cheering points. They do exist, but yeah, you do have to go through some dark shit to get there.

I hope you have better luck finding something to your tastes with your next choice though. The extent to which you diliked this one really surprised me.

This post has been edited by JPK: 05 December 2018 - 06:37 PM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 05 December 2018 - 05:44 PM, said:

...

Eh, disagree. Malazan has a lot of uplifting stuff in it. Heroic stuff. Stuff that makes you cheer. This had none of that. Not even a whisper.
...

Nah, it utterly does, but you didn't get there.


In fact, the sheer unceasing gutpunch bleakness of the start (and i'm pretty sure i know the first thing that punched you and why and i do not disagree it's brutal to read on a visceral level and probably destroyed your chance of enjoying the rest of the series) makes the impact of opposite events later on that much more impressive. That said you do have to wade through some dark stuff and if you're not feeling it, life's too short to read what you don't want to and also, GO BACK TO RUSSIA.

[QuickTidal]

Abyss, on 05 December 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

life's too short to read what you don't want to

This is pretty much me. I will say that if I didn't hate the tense and person, I might push through...but the trifecta absolutely ruined this read for me.

[worry]

It's not for everybody, but I love first person. What can I say? It appeals to me. But you don't even like second person? You sure are picky! Some people. They see anything other than third person, an author strays just a little off the beaten path, and they freak.


It's like I always say: you make some folk's favorite meal, they'll find a way to complain about the silverware.

[polishgenius]

Hey, when I first started recc-ing this series on this board when it came out, I did warn y'all that it was at least as dark and more emotionally wrecking than Bakker.

So this time at least you can't blame me.

No double-stamp though, shame.

Gotta say, though, you've really never enjoyed a first-person narrative? Have you not read Richard Morgan or the Caine books? I coulda sworn you had at least the latter.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 05 December 2018 - 09:04 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

polishgenius, on 05 December 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

Gotta say, though, you've really never enjoyed a first-person narrative? Have you not read Richard Morgan or the Caine books? I coulda sworn you had at least the latter.

Caine even jumps around between first-person/present tense and third-person/past tense!

[Cyphon]

Fifth season took two attempts for me. I found that I needed to be in a mindset to undertake the bleak elements for the payoff. Finished book 2 recently and I think it's worth the payoff.

I suppose all I'd say is don't damn it and never return. Just wait until you're in a better mindset to take it on.

That said just finished the fractal Prince by Hannu Rajaniemi. Great book of show and don't tell but I do wonder if he falls into the category of a book that thinks it's cleverer than it is. Took a bit of time and dedication though to understand what was going on. Good but a heavier read that I probably need something popcorny to follow.

Just started reading Twelve Kings in Sharakhi by Bradley P. Beaulieu. I'm interested to see how far it grows out of some early tropes it sets out. I've heard good things and the early world building is pretty good.

On that vein and setting style I read Master Assassins recently which is really worth a read and one of the best books I've read of 2018.

[stone monkey]

QuickTidal, on 05 December 2018 - 07:20 PM, said:

Abyss, on 05 December 2018 - 06:41 PM, said:

life's too short to read what you don't want to

This is pretty much me. I will say that if I didn't hate the tense and person, I might push through...but the trifecta absolutely ruined this read for me.

The second person thing really does pay off in the end (at the bitterest end, to be precise) - not just as merely a stylistic quirk but also for plot related (even critical) reasons.

[QuickTidal]

worry, on 05 December 2018 - 07:32 PM, said:

It's not for everybody, but I love first person. What can I say? It appeals to me. But you don't even like second person? You sure are picky! Some people. They see anything other than third person, an author strays just a little off the beaten path, and they freak.


It's like I always say: you make some folk's favorite meal, they'll find a way to complain about the silverware.

polishgenius, on 05 December 2018 - 09:03 PM, said:

Hey, when I first started recc-ing this series on this board when it came out, I did warn y'all that it was at least as dark and more emotionally wrecking than Bakker.

So this time at least you can't blame me.

No double-stamp though, shame.

Gotta say, though, you've really never enjoyed a first-person narrative? Have you not read Richard Morgan or the Caine books? I coulda sworn you had at least the latter.

Um, I said above I’m fine with both first person, and third. It’s only second I can’t stand.

[polishgenius]

Oh my bad I conflated your present tense with first person there somehow.

[worry]

QuickTidal, on 06 December 2018 - 12:12 AM, said:

Um, I said above I'm fine with both first person, and third. It's only second I can't stand.

Sure, but why should that stand in the way of my post?

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Is I the only me that didn't even notice you's POV when reading she book? You was no big memorable.

This post has been edited by Whisperzzzzzzz: 06 December 2018 - 02:47 AM

[Morgoth]

Briar King, on 06 December 2018 - 12:19 AM, said:

Grr all this NKJ talk isn't making the struggle to not pick her book up any easier.

All her books are great. Get to it!

[acesn8s]

Still haven't made any progress on Liar's Key, so I set it aside for now. I'll give it another shot when my holiday vacation starts. I started The Last Wish by Sapkowski. I read Blood of Elves and just Finished Witcher 3. Hopefully this will fill in some blanks; and the short story format will make things easier for my over-taxed brain.

[Abyss]

Briar King, on 06 December 2018 - 06:33 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 06 December 2018 - 12:16 PM, said:

Briar King, on 06 December 2018 - 12:19 AM, said:

Grr all this NKJ talk isn't making the struggle to not pick her book up any easier.

All her books are great. Get to it!

Yeah yeah yeah. Bakune and Ivanr are boring me atm anyway.

So the Appendix in the back..can I read this at any point or should I leave it till I'm done?

I'd say leave it. She's generally good with explaining new things in the natural flow of the story.

[worry]

As far as I recall, it doesn't hurt to reference the appendix if you ever feel curious while you're reading though? Like once you get the gist of what "fifth season" means there's a bunch of history in the back. Like if your question is if it's more reference material vs. hidden epilogue type stuff, then it's definitely more reference material (unless I'm forgetting something).

[stone monkey]

I actually read the Appendix first. It really helped my read to know what the stakes were.... Or what I thought they were...

[Abyss]

I was earbooking, didn't even know there was an appendix, and was just fine.

I figure even BK should be alright.

[Zetubal]

Been a while since I last reported about my Codex Alera journey, but here I am and I've just finished the final book. Since I didn't find the time to review Alera 5 at the time, I guess I'll do a "quick" wrap up for each novel.

Alera 5 is easily the worst novel in the entire series. Brencis, Lararl and the Canean Vord queen are pathetic excuses for villains, the Vord in Canea & in Alera are a bland force-of-nature type of enemy and by juggling so many events at so many places at the same time, no single moment or event really has a chance to stick out. Paradoxically, this creates a situation wherein this novel has an abundance of really large scale epic moments like the sieges of Alera Imperia & Riva or the flight from Molvar, but all of them feel less significant than the comparatively tiny defense on the Elinarch in Alera 3. A lot of that has to do with low dramatic stakes. Canea is just a vast empty plain. There are two short moments where we get a vague idea of what the loss of that continent actually means to the Canim on an emotional level: first when Varg learns about the fact this his civilization perished in his absence - which is a brief moment of powerful silence cut short by Tavi punching Varg on the muzzle and basically telling him to "get on with it", and the second being when Varg and Nasaug are reunited with their family - which the focalizers only witness from a distance and which is never ever brought up again. Aside from that, the plot in Canea is basically inconsequential. Tavi and the Narashans leave Alera, go to Canea, see that it's gone to hell, pick up a couple other Canim - none of which will be important later on - kill a queen which doesn't really matter because there's a second one on Canea and go back in pretty much the same constellation. Feels like a really shallow excuse to have Tavi removed from Alera for book 5. Maybe this would've had more emotional weight if we actually got to experience the story from Varg's perspective rather than Marcus and Tavi's.
As it is, the story basically wastes a lot of time and pages with the heroes dicking around in Canea. At the same time, some other plots in Alera are woefully underdeveloped. Isana has all of three whooping chapters to single-handedly end the centuries long conflict between Alera and the Icemen. The explanation that the source of their conflict boils down to a big "misunderstanding" and that Isana's determined stance is basically enough to resolve centuries of animosity is hardly believable, to say the least. I also find it...interesting...that the second High Lord on the Shieldwall apparently just tags along as soon as Antillus agrees to peace with the Icemen.
There's of course also some good stuff in this book. I like how Tavi steadily grows into the role of a responsible leader. Varg's big emotional moment I previously mentioned is easily the greatest scene in the book, the fact that Canea is actually completely screwed beyond saving comes as a surprise and the fact that even Tavi has to admit defeat and flee is genuinely refreshing. I also enjoyed the Ehren bits, Sextus' conversations, and the overall bleak hopeless mood of the book.
At the end of the day though, it's once again the likable characters that save the day. It's not a bad book, but without the characters that the series has already (successfully) spent 4 novels endearing me to them, I might have actually disliked it. ...It's an okay albeit weak entry.

Alera 6 shares many of the same problems but also has a handful more positive aspects to it. Right away, the main plot has a lot more drive to it: It's all about Tavi's race to the Vord queen before she wipes out the remaining Alerans. This neatly ties together all three major parties. The character interactions, for the most part, are also fine. The banter is nice as always, there are some decent heart-to-heart moments between Kitai and Tavi, and I can even recall some actually memorable talks. I particularly liked Attis Aquitaine's role ever since it was revealed that he used to be friends with Septimus. He still remains ambiguous to the end, while also cementing his role as someone who puts the Realm above all else. An ideological conflict between Aquitaine and Tavi would have been a much better confrontation, on a personal level, than the struggle against millions of mindless Vord that we got. As for Invidia and the Vord queen...I guess what Butcher tried there was okay. Invidia's selfishness was already well-established when this novel started and all she does throughout this book is throw away every chance at redemption. Her story is your everyday "spurned femme fatale takes revenge on the world"-plot with some exposition talk thrown in for good measure. The fact that she constantly betrays everyone also doesn't come as a surprise. Her downfall from one of the most intriguing characters to this is probably one of the biggest let downs in Codex Alera. The Vord queen is a really mixed bag. Credit where credit's due: She's nowhere near as cartoonishly evil as the previous antagonists. The moments that show the clash between her motherly feelings towards her brood and offspring and her own childishness are kind of intriguing. Then again, she does stuff that is just irredeemably evil and her predatory nature predetermines the course of the entire story. Once again, this is sort of an unfair criticism but knowing that the queen is totally irredeemable and the Vord need to be taken down by the end of the novel, her death is pretty much assured. In that sense, it's hard to grow to attached to her.
As with novel 5, novel 6 also suffers tremendously from power creep. Everything is bigger, more epic, there are more battles, larger monsters, greater furies etc. Unfortunately, the personal dramatic stakes are either not there at all or they can't exactly increase beyond what they were at in previous novels. The fact that Butcher keeps ramping up the number of Vord troops is also really bland and unimaginative. At some point, I don't care whether the Alerans are outnumbered 1:100 or 1:200, 1:300... The bottom line is always the same: They're badly outnumbered. With the added sub-clause: "...but they'll pull through anyway".

Minor complaint: The Vord military strategy sucks. There's no reason as for why the Vord so desperately push the Alerans when they could just starve them out. Also, why don't they just turn around their 3 million Vord force and annihilate Tavi's army? It's not like the remaining Alerans could have done anything against that.

Anything else? Ending was pretty lame. First of all, very "kitchy" stuff in there. More importantly though, Alera is pretty much fucked. I mean Tavi&Co. talk about getting ready for the Canean Vord but really, these are the same Vord that wiped out tens of millions of Canim. And they're fortifying an entire continent to become an impregnable fortress + secure base for their endless supply of troops. And there are likely going to be tens of millions of the beasts already. The final Vord queen can just chill out in Canea and drown the Alerans in an endless flood of Vord from afar and there's absolutely nothing to be done against that. That's a rather bleak note to end a story on.


So...in the end, what did I think about Codex Alera on the whole. I loved the first 3 novels, but feel rather conflicted about the latter three. It certainly felt like some sense of franchise fatigue settled in as time went by. Decent books, great protagonists, villains kind of sucked. Recommended. Novels from best to worst are: 3, 2, 1, 4, 6, 5.

This post has been edited by Zetubal: 07 December 2018 - 09:05 AM

[Mentalist]

Zetubal, on 06 December 2018 - 10:32 PM, said:

Been a while since I last reported about my Codex Alera journey, but here I am and I've just finished the final book. Since I didn't find the time to review Alera 5 at the time, I guess I'll do a "quick" wrap up for each novel.

Alera 5 is easily the worst novel in the entire series. Brencis, Lararl and the Canean Vord queen are pathetic excuses for villains, the Vord in Canea & in Alera are a bland force-of-nature type of enemy and by juggling so many events at so many places at the same time, no single moment or event really has a chance to stick out. Paradoxically, this creates a situation wherein this novel has an abundance of really large scale epic moments like the sieges of Alera & Riva or the flight from Molvar but all of them feel less significant than the comparatively tiny defense on the Elinarch in Alera 3. A lot of that has to do with low dramatic stakes. Canea is just a vast empty plain. There are two short moments were we get a vague idea of what the loss of that continent actually means to the Canim on an emotional level: first when Varg first learns about the fact this his cilization died in his absence - which is a brief moment of powerful silence cut short by Tavi punching Varg on the muzzle and basically telling him "get on with it", and the second being when Varg and Nasaug are reunited with their family - with the focalizers only witness from a distance and which is never ever brought up again. Aside from that, The plot in Canea is basically inconsequential. Tavi and the Narashans leave Alera, go to Canea, see that it's gone to hell, pick up a couple other Canims - none of which will be important later on - kill a queen which doesn't really matter because there's a second one on Canea and go back in pretty much the same constellation. Feels like a really shallow excuse to have Tavi removed from Alera for book 5. Maybe this would've had more emotional weight if we actually got to experience the story from Varg's perspective rather than Marcus and Tavi's.
As it is, the story basically wastes a lot of time and pages with the heroes dicking around in Canea. At the same time, some other plots in Alera are woefully underdeveloped. Isana has all of three whooping chapters to single-handedly end the centuries long conflict between Alera and the Icemen. The explanation that the source of their conflict is basically a big "misunderstanding" and that Isana's determined stance is basically enough to resolve centuries of animosity is hardly believable, to say the least. I also find it...interesting...that the second High Lord on the Shieldwall apparently just tags along as soon as Antillus agrees to peace with the Icemen.
There's of course also some good stuff in this book. I like how Tavi steadily grows into the role of a responsible leader. Varg's big emotional moment I previously mentioned is easily the greatest scene in the book, the fact that Canea is actually completely screwed beyond saving comes as a surprise and the fact that even Tavi has to admit defeat and flee is genuinely refreshing. I also enjoyed the Ehren-bits, Sextus' conversations, and the overall bleak hopeless mood of the book.
At the end of the day though, it's once again the likable characters that save the day. It's not a bad book, but without the characters that the series has already (successfully) spent 4 novels endearing me to them, I might have actually disliked it. ...It's an okay albeit weak entry.

Alera 6 shares many of the same problems but also has a handful more positive aspects to it. Right away, the main plot has a lot more drive to it: It's all about Tavi's race to the Vord queen before she wipes out the remaining Alerans. This neatly ties together all three major parties. The character interactions, for the most part, are also fine. The banter is nice as always, there are some nice heart-to-heart moments between Kitai and Tavi, and there are also some actually memorable talks. I particularly liked Attis Aquitaine's role ever since it was revealed that he used to be friends with Septimus. He still remains ambiguous to the end, while also cementing his role as someone who puts the Realm above all else. An ideological conflict between Aquitaine and Tavi would have been a much better confrontation, on a personal level, then the struggle against millions of mindless Vord that we got. As for Invidia and the Vord queen...I guess what Butcher tried there was okay. Invidia's selfishness was already well-established when this novel started and all she does throughout this book is throw away every chance at redemption. Her story is your everyday spurned femme fatale takes revenge on the world plot with some exposition talk thrown in for good measure. The fact that she constantly betrays everyone also doesn't come as a surprise. Her downfall from one of the most intriguing characters to this is probably one of the biggest let downs in Codex Alera. The Vord queen is a really mixed bag. Credit where credit's due: She's nowhere near as cartoonishly evil as the previous antagonists. The moments that show the clash between her motherly feelings toward her brood and offspring and her own childishness are kind of intriguing. Then again, she does stuff that is just irredeemably evil and her predatory nature predetermines the course of the entire story. Once again, this is sort of an unfair criticism but knowing that the queen is totally irredeemable and the Vord need to be taken down by the end of the novel, her death is pretty much assured. In that sense, it's hard to grow to attached to her.
As with novel 5, novel 6 also suffers tremendously from power creep. Everything is bigger, more epic, there are more battles, larger monsters, greater furies etc. Unfortunately, the personal dramatic stakes are either not there at all or they can't exactly increase beyond what they were at in previous novels. The fact that Butcher keeps ramping up the number of Vord troops is also really bland and unimaginative. At some point, I don't care whether the Alerans are outnumbered 1:100 or 1:200, 1:300... The bottom line is always the same: They're badly outnumbered. With the added sub-clause: "...but they'll pull through anyway".

Minor complaint: The Vord military strategy sucks. There's no reason as for why the Vord so desperately push the Alerans when they could just starve them out. Also, why don't they just turn around their 3 million Vord force and annihilate Tavi's army? It's not like the remaining Alerans could have done anything against that.

Anything else? Ending was pretty lame. First of all, very "kitchy" stuff in there. More importantly though, Alera is pretty much fucked. I mean Tavi&Co. talk about getting ready for the Canean Vord but really, these are the same Vord that wiped out tens of millions of Canim. And they're fortifying an entire continent to become an impregnable fortress + secure base for their endless supply of troops. And there are likely going to be tens of millions of the beasts already. The final Vord Queen can just chill out in Canea and drown the Alerans in an endless flood of Vord from afar and there's absolutely nothing to be done against that. That's a rather bleak note to end a story on.


So...in the end, what did I think about Codex Alera on the whole. I loved the first 3 novels, but feel rather conflicted about the latter three. It certainly felt like some sense of franchise fatigue settled in as time went by. Decent books, great protagonists, villains kind of sucked. Recommended. Novels from best to worst are: 3, 2, 1, 4, 6, 5.

My order would be 2 3 4 1 6 5, but yeah, the series went downhill once Tavi got powers. .