[Whisperzzzzzzz]

polishgenius, on 19 October 2017 - 08:23 PM, said:

The other thing Uprooted reminded me of was Mythago Wood. Man, I need to get back into that series. Only ever read the first book and I don't know why.





It's weird about how The Vorrh got marketed. I read it ages ago, and I think there was some weird situation where it was republished or something coz I remember a fairly big push for it after I read it, and references to the trilogy vanished, and then all of a sudden just when I'd given up on it happening coz I'd seen no word whatsoever, bang there's a sequel.

It's a fairly standalone story iirc but there are questions that don't get answered.

I assume you know (it was in the intro of my copy, but not sure if that's still the case) that Raymond Roussell was a real author who wrote a novel about the Vorrh, so this is a bit of a meta-fictional thing.

No, I had no idea! That's intriguing.

And I'll check out Mythago Wood.

[QuickTidal]

Moment when I knew I was reading something awesome (THE RED KNIGHT): A golden bear has POV chapters. That is....so awesome.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 20 October 2017 - 12:26 PM, said:

Moment when I knew I was reading something awesome (THE RED KNIGHT): A golden bear has POV chapters. That is....so awesome.

That is one of the big positives of the book for me. It immediately set apart the Wild as not another pseudo-North

[acesn8s]

I loved the fact that Cameron's armor tanks. I mean why bother wearing 100 + pounds of it if it doesn't do anything.

[Macros]

reading the last book of the Greatcloaks (at least I tihnk its the last) tyrants throne.

Having to read it on my phone because my sister has lost my kobo!

[Abyss]

Abyss, on 18 October 2017 - 07:34 PM, said:

...In earbook something called HOPE AND RED (Empire of Storms #1) by Jon Skovron. I grabbed this free from an audible promo based on some good reviews, the fun of something completely unknown, and the very basic blurb that sounded like some classic fantasy fun, hints of Gemmell and Lawrence and Lynch (when i still liked his writing). Just a bit into it, and while one plotline is so trope-heavy as to verge on predictable, the other is damn funny. Also, pirates. Incompetent, fantasy world pirates. The author is also the narrator, which is usually a warning sign if it isn't Neil Gaiman, but he does well enough.

About 30% in, this book is a bit all over the place.
I like the theft capers, i like the ocean-going elements, the action is ok, theres a kernel of a story here that might be something fun... but the author's earbook narration is becoming tedious at times, and some of the plot developments are just weak. And while i appreciate that the author places emphasis on the characters over setting, he's done so little world-building that the setting is at risk of being dull. The characters repeatedly telling the reader how wonderful a place is doesn't make it so if that's all we get to work with, especially when it's pretty much textbook fantasy lit city slum 101.

[Lady Bliss]

I've just started reading The Core by Peter V. Brett. Too soon to tell how it will be. On another note, I bought The Rook. After Ando brought it up in the groove thread, I had to look it up and thought it sounded fairly interesting.

[Andorion]

Lady Bliss, on 20 October 2017 - 09:05 PM, said:

I've just started reading The Core by Peter V. Brett. Too soon to tell how it will be. On another note, I bought The Rook. After Ando brought it up in the groove thread, I had to look it up and thought it sounded fairly interesting.

Rook was one of the more entertaining books I read. Hoping you will like it!

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Still reading The Vorrh, but I was feeling something a little less Surrealist on this beautiful Sunday — Jack Vance's Tales of the Dying Earth, an omnibus containing his four Dying Earth books. Great stuff so far.

[QuickTidal]

Briar King, on 23 October 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

Grace of Kings(QT you need this ASAP)

Yeah, I need to find a half hour in the store to read a bit of it and see if I might like it more than the snippet I read of the kindle sample.

------------------

So after some cottage-weekend reading, I'm a solid chunk into THE RED KNIGHT...and I've found the things that grate on me.

I shall list them here.

not-really-spoilers-but-still

Spoiler

1. The CONSTANT descriptions of amour: use and/or donning-of...my gods...if I read one more section where the Captain's sabaton's ring across the floor or random characters pauldrons looking white and polished...but yeah, it's gotten more than repetitive and distracts from the story in any given moment. I realize that Cameron is a die-hard amour buff...and that he seems to spend lots of time with amour...but sweet jeezus man, dial it back.

2. Amicia...after getting by her introduction where the Red Knight essentially forces himself on her ALMOST to the point of rape, but doesn't...Am I meant to root for this individual after that display? I thought we'd get some depth of character for what I assume is meant to be a series love story...nope. Not only no depth, but a lack of chemistry between them that is palpable....and I start to think, that maybe Cameron just wanted to throw in a girl for him to chase? I dunno. It's annoying.

3. Thinly veiled religion/real world allegories. Look, if you want to make a fantasy world with allegories to our world...go all in or not at all...this piecemeal bullshit is irritating. In places that are CLEARLY Britain and France, people practice what is clearly Christianity and read the Bible...saints, holy days, ceremonies ect. are all accounted for....in religions with the name SLIGHTLY different. Just stop man. Go visit GGK and ask him how to use our real world places and events and religions and reset them in the fantasy milieu...because you're doing it wrong.

4. Some of the prose is...obtuse. Not al of it, or even a lot of it....but there are passages where I think Cameron stumbles over himself to try to say what he's saying and as a result the prose suffers. That's a minor issue.

5. Lastly, you don't need 47 POV's. Especially if some of them add next to nothing to the story, or essentially recap it (I'm looking at you Michael's diary entires). Another minor quibble.

I mean, on the whole I'm enjoying it...but man these things grate on me. Enough that I'll probably only give the debut half marks. There's a great story wrapped up in his authorly missteps, so I'm happy to trudge through that crap to get to the good.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 23 October 2017 - 12:59 PM

[Macros]

The amica thing bothered me too, but he changes rapidly as a character I found

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 23 October 2017 - 01:35 PM, said:

The amica thing bothered me too, but he changes rapidly as a character I found

Good to know. I'm happy to see where this all rides out.

[polishgenius]

(no spoilers further than what QT's read, but tagging them in response)

Spoiler

The armour thing never quite goes away, but he does reign it in. That was probably the main thing that put me off the first time I read the series.

The treatment of women in general is actually a background but continuous theme of the series, so hopefully you'll find improvement there.

The POV thing can take some getting used to, and was probably another reason I faltered on my first go, but I find it a strength overall, especially when it comes to the battle scenes, and when plotlines start splitting off into different places.

The religion thing you just have to get used to. The author does have an answer to it but I'm not sure if it quite qualifies as a potential spoiler for where you are or not, so I won't say it here. The national equivalents thing is odd, but to be fair, the only real difference between him and Kay is that Kay's changed the names more.

[amphibian]

The POV thing becomes a terrific strength of the series.

The armor mentioning is meant to provide a point - that logistics and in particular, what people have, is really important to everyone and thus to the reader.

The Amicia dynamic changes. RAFO.

As for asking GGK's advice on how to veil real world things within SFF? Naaah.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 23 October 2017 - 12:57 PM, said:

Briar King, on 23 October 2017 - 02:00 AM, said:

Grace of Kings(QT you need this ASAP)

Yeah, I need to find a half hour in the store to read a bit of it and see if I might like it more than the snippet I read of the kindle sample.

------------------

So after some cottage-weekend reading, I'm a solid chunk into THE RED KNIGHT...and I've found the things that grate on me.

I shall list them here.

not-really-spoilers-but-still

Spoiler

1. The CONSTANT descriptions of amour: use and/or donning-of...my gods...if I read one more section where the Captain's sabaton's ring across the floor or random characters pauldrons looking white and polished...but yeah, it's gotten more than repetitive and distracts from the story in any given moment. I realize that Cameron is a die-hard amour buff...and that he seems to spend lots of time with amour...but sweet jeezus man, dial it back.

2. Amicia...after getting by her introduction where the Red Knight essentially forces himself on her ALMOST to the point of rape, but doesn't...Am I meant to root for this individual after that display? I thought we'd get some depth of character for what I assume is meant to be a series love story...nope. Not only no depth, but a lack of chemistry between them that is palpable....and I start to think, that maybe Cameron just wanted to throw in a girl for him to chase? I dunno. It's annoying.

3. Thinly veiled religion/real world allegories. Look, if you want to make a fantasy world with allegories to our world...go all in or not at all...this piecemeal bullshit is irritating. In places that are CLEARLY Britain and France, people practice what is clearly Christianity and read the Bible...saints, holy days, ceremonies ect. are all accounted for....in religions with the name SLIGHTLY different. Just stop man. Go visit GGK and ask him how to use our real world places and events and religions and reset them in the fantasy milieu...because you're doing it wrong.

4. Some of the prose is...obtuse. Not al of it, or even a lot of it....but there are passages where I think Cameron stumbles over himself to try to say what he's saying and as a result the prose suffers. That's a minor issue.

5. Lastly, you don't need 47 POV's. Especially if some of them add next to nothing to the story, or essentially recap it (I'm looking at you Michael's diary entires). Another minor quibble.

I mean, on the whole I'm enjoying it...but man these things grate on me. Enough that I'll probably only give the debut half marks. There's a great story wrapped up in his authorly missteps, so I'm happy to trudge through that crap to get to the good.

You know QT you may have highlighted some of the reasons why I did not like the book as much as I thought I would.

The huge number of PoVs are irritating, the armour thing is definitely very tiresome.


In other news, I am halfway into Foxglove Summer and I absolutely love it. Easily my favourite of the series so far.

Spoiler

Ben Aaronovitch does some really scary unicorns. I think he just topped Charles Stross.

Also reading Blackwing by Ed Mcdonald.

[End of Disc One]

I seem to be the only person on the internet who saw the large # of POVs in Red Knight to be a positive. I've seen so many complaints about it.

I'm almost 300 pages into Perdido Street Station and it's excellent. Between this, Grace of Kings, The Unholy Consult--and hopefully Oathbringer--I've read some truly fantastic books this year.

[amphibian]

I'm of the opinion that the many POVs, which is something Malazan does well also, is a positive in Cameron's series too.

However, different strokes for different folks...

[QuickTidal]

amphibian, on 23 October 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

I'm of the opinion that the many POVs, which is something Malazan does well also, is a positive in Cameron's series too.

However, different strokes for different folks...

If you are trying to compare how Erikson does multiple POVs to how Cameron does it..you'll come up WELL short. Erikson was amazing at it (and din't need to separate them by whole chapters every time)...Cameron so far...not so much.

Cameron is trying to pull a GRRM with his...and I feel fails by dint of having too many.

[Salt-Man Z]

Last week I finished off the first omnibus of Lindsay Buroker's Fallen Empire series. I've been pretty wary of self-pub authors, but this was well-written, good old-fashioned popcorn space opera fun. The first book is free on Amazon.com if you want to check out, and the omnibus (prequel, books 1-3, plus a short story) is only $0.99. (You can also sign up for her mailing list and get the prequel, another short, and additional scenes from later books all for free.)

Currently diving in (ha!) to Ruthanna Emrys' Winter Tide, as I always like to seek out Lovecraft-y stuff around Halloween, and I enjoyed the short story that this book spun out from.

This post has been edited by Salt-Man Z: 23 October 2017 - 06:25 PM

[amphibian]

QuickTidal, on 23 October 2017 - 05:14 PM, said:

amphibian, on 23 October 2017 - 04:54 PM, said:

I'm of the opinion that the many POVs, which is something Malazan does well also, is a positive in Cameron's series too.

However, different strokes for different folks...

If you are trying to compare how Erikson does multiple POVs to how Cameron does it..you'll come up WELL short. Erikson was amazing at it (and din't need to separate them by whole chapters every time)...Cameron so far...not so much.

Cameron is trying to pull a GRRM with his...and I feel fails by dint of having too many.

RAFO. RAFO. RAFO.