[Andorion]

So I lost a bet with my brother, and now I have to do a Classic Reading Challenge for 2017. This is a bit of a daunting task for me as I have usually avoided classics after some bad initial experiences. The list he has given me is roughly this -

• Gone With the Wind Margaret Mitchell
• Bleak House Charles Dickens
• The Idiot Dostoevsky
• The Divine Comedy Dante
• Ivanhoe Walter Scott
• A Tree Grows in Brooklyn Betty Smith
• Emma Jane Austen
• Wuthering Heights Emily Bronte
• The Godfather Mario Puzo
• How Green was my Valley Richard Llewellyn
• To Kill a Mockingbird Harper Lee
• The Unbearable Lighness of Being Milan Kundera
• Razor's Edge Somerset Maugham
• Jude the Obscure Thomas Hardy
• Aenid Virgil
• The Color Purple Alice Walker
• Remains of the Day Kazuo Ishiguro
• The Picture of Dorian Grey Oscar Wilde
• Fahrenheit 451 Ray Bradbury
• Slaughterhouse 5 Kurt Vonnegut
• Heart of Darkness Joseph Conrad
• Of Mice and Men John Steinbeck

I suspect that most people here will have read some of these. So, how tough are they? What kind of challenge am I looking at?

[Macros]

Have only read to kill a mockingbird.

Had to read it for school, which always sours me on a book, but it's quite short and is an excellent read.

[Morgoth]

Of these I'd say that

Fahrenheit 451 Ray Bradbury
Slaughterhouse 5 Kurt Vonnegut
Heart of Darkness Joseph Conrad
Of Mice and Men John Steinbeck

are all quick and easy reads (though very good).

The Divine Comedy and the Idiot both require the most work, at least they did for me.

My favourite of the selection is The Unbearable Lightness of Being by Kundera.

[Mentalist]

Of the bunch I only read Ivanhoe, but I read it in translation so YMMV. I read it as a kid, and found it to be a good, if somewhat dense knights and chivalry story. But once again, I read it in translation to moder-day Russian, not sure how "classic olde English" the original is written in.

"Divine Comedy" I heard is quite decent, as long as you get an annotated version that explains all the references to 14th century Italian politics. My roommate had to read it in first year uni.

[MTS]

Of those I've read:

Bleak House - good read, typical Dickens stuff. A good start if you like the Victorian era.

The Idiot - Dostoyevsky is a tough read, but this is my favourite of his (with Crime and Punishment close behind).

Divine Comedy - ultimately rewarding, but it's epic poetry, so the form can get tiring after a while. That can be alleviated with a good translation though (Poetry in Translation have a version in prose). Like Ment said, if you don't mind looking at some footnotes it's fine.

Emma - I've only liked one Jane Austen book, and this wasn't it.

The Godfather - one of the few instances where I find the movie is superior to the book. This didn't really stick with me like the movie did.

The Unbearable Lightness of Being - excellent book, thoroughly enjoyed it. It is well worth your time.

Aeneid - similar to Divine Comedy - the translations matter - but it was more of a slog I found, despite being shorter (and I say that as a classicist). Lots of references to Greek myth and Roman history, so you'll need an annotated copy as well.

The Picture of Dorian Gray - an entertaining read that's not too long and has a lot of wittiness packed into it, if you don't mind Wilde ruminating about the nature of art a lot.

Morg summarised the bottom four well - easy reads that are excellent books. All very different settings too, so you can pick your fancy. Conrad's prose might take a bit of getting used to though.

[Andorion]

Mentalist, on 16 November 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

Of the bunch I only read Ivanhoe, but I read it in translation so YMMV. I read it as a kid, and found it to be a good, if somewhat dense knights and chivalry story. But once again, I read it in translation to moder-day Russian, not sure how "classic olde English" the original is written in.

"Divine Comedy" I heard is quite decent, as long as you get an annotated version that explains all the references to 14th century Italian politics. My roommate had to read it in first year uni.

I think my library has a couple of annotated copies of Divine Comedy. The Classic collection there is excellent

MTS, on 16 November 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

Of those I've read:

Bleak House - good read, typical Dickens stuff. A good start if you like the Victorian era.

The Idiot - Dostoyevsky is a tough read, but this is my favourite of his (with Crime and Punishment close behind).

Divine Comedy - ultimately rewarding, but it's epic poetry, so the form can get tiring after a while. That can be alleviated with a good translation though (Poetry in Translation have a version in prose). Like Ment said, if you don't mind looking at some footnotes it's fine.

Emma - I've only liked one Jane Austen book, and this wasn't it.

The Godfather - one of the few instances where I find the movie is superior to the book. This didn't really stick with me like the movie did.

The Unbearable Lightness of Being - excellent book, thoroughly enjoyed it. It is well worth your time.

Aeneid - similar to Divine Comedy - the translations matter - but it was more of a slog I found, despite being shorter (and I say that as a classicist). Lots of references to Greek myth and Roman history, so you'll need an annotated copy as well.

The Picture of Dorian Gray - an entertaining read that's not too long and has a lot of wittiness packed into it, if you don't mind Wilde ruminating about the nature of art a lot.

Morg summarised the bottom four well - easy reads that are excellent books. All very different settings too, so you can pick your fancy. Conrad's prose might take a bit of getting used to though.

I am extremely worried about Dickens as he is one of the unpleasant experiences that turned me off classics. I have read Great Expectations, Oliver Twist, and David Copperfield and hated all three. I liked Tale of Two Cities and Christmas Carol though.

How does Dostoevsky compare to Tolstoy?

I am looking forward to both Divine Comedy and Aeneid. I like old classics, I love the Iliad. And I am extremely interested in history.

Everybody seems to like Lightness of Being. What is it about?

Which Austen did you like?

[QuickTidal]

Oh, I like EMMA quite a lot...I also like PRIDE & PREJUDICE, and especially PERSUASION. NORTHANGER ABBEY is decent-ish.

The only one I really disliked is MANSFIELD PARK...and that's largely just due to the subject matter boring me, and there are too many ins and outs to keep pace.

[MTS]

Andorion, on 16 November 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

I am extremely worried about Dickens as he is one of the unpleasant experiences that turned me off classics. I have read Great Expectations, Oliver Twist, and David Copperfield and hated all three. I liked Tale of Two Cities and Christmas Carol though.

Maybe steer clear of Bleak House then.

Quote

How does Dostoevsky compare to Tolstoy?

Don't really know to be honest. Didn't even get 100 pages into War and Peace, and haven't read anything else. I imagine they're cut from much the same cloth.

Quote

I am looking forward to both Divine Comedy and Aeneid. I like old classics, I love the Iliad. And I am extremely interested in history.

You'll be sorted then. Lots of references to the Iliad and the Odyssey in the Aeneid (some scholars are wont to say it's just a ripped-off Odyssey ).

Quote

Everybody seems to like Lightness of Being. What is it about?

It's a book set in Cold War Czechoslovakia, and follows the lives of a man, his wife, his mistress, her lover, and their dog. It basically examines how they deal with each other and life in Czechoslovakia under the Communist Party. It's a very philosophical book though, and has lots of asides about freedom/choice, love, life etc. It can get pretty damn pretentious at times, but it's a very well-written book.

Quote

Which Austen did you like?

Northanger Abbey.

This post has been edited by MTS: 16 November 2016 - 02:36 PM

[Salt-Man Z]

MTS, on 16 November 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

Conrad's prose might take a bit of getting used to though.

I just read Heart of the Darkness for the first time this year (though I must have at least started it in 12th grade, but that was 20 years ago) and it was hard going initially. The frame story I found confusing and unnecessary, but once it got going it had an almost hypnotic quality to it.

This post has been edited by Salt-Man Z: 16 November 2016 - 03:38 PM

[Morgoth]

Every time people use the word pretentious when talking about books I die a little inside.

[Andorion]

MTS, on 16 November 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

Andorion, on 16 November 2016 - 01:24 PM, said:

I am extremely worried about Dickens as he is one of the unpleasant experiences that turned me off classics. I have read Great Expectations, Oliver Twist, and David Copperfield and hated all three. I liked Tale of Two Cities and Christmas Carol though.

Maybe steer clear of Bleak House then.

Quote

How does Dostoevsky compare to Tolstoy?

Don't really know to be honest. Didn't even get 100 pages into War and Peace, and haven't read anything else. I imagine they're cut from much the same cloth.

Quote

I am looking forward to both Divine Comedy and Aeneid. I like old classics, I love the Iliad. And I am extremely interested in history.

You'll be sorted then. Lots of references to the Iliad and the Odyssey in the Aeneid (some scholars are wont to say it's just a ripped-off Odyssey ).

Quote

Everybody seems to like Lightness of Being. What is it about?

It's a book set in Cold War Czechoslovakia, and follows the lives of a man, his wife, his mistress, her lover, and their dog. It basically examines how they deal with each other and life in Czechoslovakia under the Communist Party. It's a very philosophical book though, and has lots of asides about freedom/choice, love, life etc. It can get pretty damn pretentious at times, but it's a very well-written book.

Quote

Which Austen did you like?

Northanger Abbey.

I read War and Peace this year and I founf it to be vastly overrated. A meandering book that is good to start, mediocre in the middle and horrible at the end.

Lightness of Being is intriguing me.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Oh, I like EMMA quite a lot...I also like PRIDE & PREJUDICE, and especially PERSUASION. NORTHANGER ABBEY is decent-ish.

The only one I really disliked is MANSFIELD PARK...and that's largely just due to the subject matter boring me, and there are too many ins and outs to keep pace.

I will be honest, in that list, Austen and Bronte scare me the most after Dickens. Its mostly because I don't think I will like the subject matter that much - QT what do you love about Austen?

[QuickTidal]

Andorion, on 16 November 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Oh, I like EMMA quite a lot...I also like PRIDE & PREJUDICE, and especially PERSUASION. NORTHANGER ABBEY is decent-ish.

The only one I really disliked is MANSFIELD PARK...and that's largely just due to the subject matter boring me, and there are too many ins and outs to keep pace.

I will be honest, in that list, Austen and Bronte scare me the most after Dickens. Its mostly because I don't think I will like the subject matter that much - QT what do you love about Austen?

Well, I feel like she nails the feminist side of life in her era for starters. Most of her leads go against the grain of typical Georgian-then-Regency era women. There's something to like about that fact, and it makes them still feel very relevant today.

She's also exceedingly good at very dry humour. Like PERSUASION made me laugh (I read it first in my late teens) more than any of her other books, but with excessively dry humour. Think Maggie Smith's Dowager countess character from DOWNTON ABBEY's one-liners. Very much in that milieu.

There's actually lots of intrigue in them, which I think has always surprised me.

But moreover, she was adept at dipping directly into the human experience of the day (as they were her contemporaries) to a frighteningly microscopic degree and worrying out the heart of any given situation. For me, this is a window into the history itself, and as such I'm fascinated by it all.

Out of all her works, I feel like EMMA is actually the most lighthearted. And easy as heck to follow (If you've seen CLUELESS, you know the general story of EMMA), compared to some of her other works which require more effort.

Oh, and ask if you can switch out the Thomas Hardy title on there for FAR FROM THE MADDING CROWD instead. His most approachable and enjoyable work.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 16 November 2016 - 05:58 PM

[worry]

If it's anything like the movie, Gone With the Wind is a 1000-page hate crime wrapped around a decent Americanized Austen-style social satire. Skip it.

I just finished a book called Swamplandia! about a family running a waning gator theme park. It's pretty good, but I wouldn't call it a must-read. The thing about it though is that it was a Pulitzer Prize finalist, and another reminder that genre work gets screwed by these "elite" prizes. If a novel strays anywhere into genre you better be able to call it "magical realism" or else it goes in the trash pile.

Now I'm onto The Gathering Storm. Can't wait to see what kinda rocks Sanderson has RJ's characters chomping on.

[polishgenius]

Finally finished the Eternal Sky trilogy by Elizabeth Bear. By far the most conventional-fantasy work of hers I've read so far, but it still stands out because of (a) its setting, across an analogue of Mongolia and the Middle East, and ( its amusing tendency, in a book series where a prince swears a threefold vow of revenge and rescue, to have the various princesses he encounters do most of the work. It does this neatly, without browbeating us with an obnoxious or useless man for overkill, and I really like that about it in the end.


Now I'm reading Last First Snow, in the Craft series by Max Gladstone. Magical law disputes should not be this much fun. Loving this series, and this one goes back to my favourite character from it so far (the series, to date, has jumped about a bit), so liking it even more.

[Gabriele]

Andorion, on 16 November 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Oh, I like EMMA quite a lot...I also like PRIDE & PREJUDICE, and especially PERSUASION. NORTHANGER ABBEY is decent-ish.

The only one I really disliked is MANSFIELD PARK...and that's largely just due to the subject matter boring me, and there are too many ins and outs to keep pace.

I will be honest, in that list, Austen and Bronte scare me the most after Dickens. Its mostly because I don't think I will like the subject matter that much - QT what do you love about Austen?

Austen is fun. Except Mansfield Park, I agree.

Wuthering Heights is a horrible angsty emo fest and the male MC has only one thing to distinguish im from that vampire guy in that girls' series; he doesn't sparkle.

[Andorion]

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

Andorion, on 16 November 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Oh, I like EMMA quite a lot...I also like PRIDE & PREJUDICE, and especially PERSUASION. NORTHANGER ABBEY is decent-ish.

The only one I really disliked is MANSFIELD PARK...and that's largely just due to the subject matter boring me, and there are too many ins and outs to keep pace.

I will be honest, in that list, Austen and Bronte scare me the most after Dickens. Its mostly because I don't think I will like the subject matter that much - QT what do you love about Austen?

Well, I feel like she nails the feminist side of life in her era for starters. Most of her leads go against the grain of typical Georgian-then-Regency era women. There's something to like about that fact, and it makes them still feel very relevant today.

She's also exceedingly good at very dry humour. Like PERSUASION made me laugh (I read it first in my late teens) more than any of her other books, but with excessively dry humour. Think Maggie Smith's Dowager countess character from DOWNTON ABBEY's one-liners. Very much in that milieu.

There's actually lots of intrigue in them, which I think has always surprised me.

But moreover, she was adept at dipping directly into the human experience of the day (as they were her contemporaries) to a frighteningly microscopic degree and worrying out the heart of any given situation. For me, this is a window into the history itself, and as such I'm fascinated by it all.

Out of all her works, I feel like EMMA is actually the most lighthearted. And easy as heck to follow (If you've seen CLUELESS, you know the general story of EMMA), compared to some of her other works which require more effort.

Oh, and ask if you can switch out the Thomas Hardy title on there for FAR FROM THE MADDING CROWD instead. His most approachable and enjoyable work.

See these things like feminism and dry humour encourage me as they are things I look for in books. What I am worried about is the basic theme.

Like in Dickens, I understand that Sickens is doing a social commentary on the poor of England and is writing about their daily lives. This is praiseworthy. But when I actually read Dickens, the impression I get is that there is this one poor boy who is going to get utterly screwed by life, other positive people will be miserable, somebody will get sick and die. I know this is accurate portrayal of the poor of mid-Victorian England, but for me it does not make for good reading. Plus I think Dickens is too verbose.

That is why I am a bit apprehensive about Austen - that the books will revolve around young women, matchmaking and family dynamics. I am hoping that she lends this narrative variety.

[Andorion]

death rattle, on 16 November 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

If it's anything like the movie, Gone With the Wind is a 1000-page hate crime wrapped around a decent Americanized Austen-style social satire. Skip it.

I just finished a book called Swamplandia! about a family running a waning gator theme park. It's pretty good, but I wouldn't call it a must-read. The thing about it though is that it was a Pulitzer Prize finalist, and another reminder that genre work gets screwed by these "elite" prizes. If a novel strays anywhere into genre you better be able to call it "magical realism" or else it goes in the trash pile.

Now I'm onto The Gathering Storm. Can't wait to see what kinda rocks Sanderson has RJ's characters chomping on.

Hate crime? I know its a civil war book, so it does not deal well with slavery?

Having recently read a bit of Magical Realism, I have good reason to be sceptical of that label. But Karen Lord's Redemption in Indigo is a great read

[Andorion]

Gabriele, on 16 November 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

Andorion, on 16 November 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

QuickTidal, on 16 November 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Oh, I like EMMA quite a lot...I also like PRIDE & PREJUDICE, and especially PERSUASION. NORTHANGER ABBEY is decent-ish.

The only one I really disliked is MANSFIELD PARK...and that's largely just due to the subject matter boring me, and there are too many ins and outs to keep pace.

I will be honest, in that list, Austen and Bronte scare me the most after Dickens. Its mostly because I don't think I will like the subject matter that much - QT what do you love about Austen?

Austen is fun. Except Mansfield Park, I agree.

Wuthering Heights is a horrible angsty emo fest and the male MC has only one thing to distinguish im from that vampire guy in that girls' series; he doesn't sparkle.

Oh dear - and they won't have superpowers either!

[worry]

Andorion, on 17 November 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

death rattle, on 16 November 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

If it's anything like the movie, Gone With the Wind is a 1000-page hate crime wrapped around a decent Americanized Austen-style social satire. Skip it.

I just finished a book called Swamplandia! about a family running a waning gator theme park. It's pretty good, but I wouldn't call it a must-read. The thing about it though is that it was a Pulitzer Prize finalist, and another reminder that genre work gets screwed by these "elite" prizes. If a novel strays anywhere into genre you better be able to call it "magical realism" or else it goes in the trash pile.

Now I'm onto The Gathering Storm. Can't wait to see what kinda rocks Sanderson has RJ's characters chomping on.

Hate crime? I know its a civil war book, so it does not deal well with slavery?

Having recently read a bit of Magical Realism, I have good reason to be sceptical of that label. But Karen Lord's Redemption in Indigo is a great read

To put it mildly, it falls squarely on the pro-slavery side of that particular debate. I wouldn't tell you not to watch the movie -- everyone who made it is dead, so you aren't exactly supporting anyone who shaped its POV -- but I can't imagine reading 1000 pages of that.

I have no qualms with magical realism or those who write it; it's just that imaginary line between "acceptable" fiction and the gutters where we dwell that stood out to me.