[amphibian]

GGK is the single biggest lightning rod for "This book is good/the same book is terrible" here on the forum.

I have not encountered this phenomenon to this degree with any other author anywhere on the internetz.

Under Heaven isn't that good in my estimation, but Lions of al-Rassan is incredible. Tigana is okay. Lions is indeed the best spot to start and then the Sarantine Mosaic is a good follow-up.

Do not read Ysabel. Never, never.

[Abyss]

I think we're pretty universal on praise for GGK's LIONS and the SARANTINE duology.


TIGANA is the big divide.

...mostly because it's a horrible horrible incest ridden pointless tangential plots veers spends no time on the best characters and the main plot device doesn't even make sense in a fantasy book context mess.

...but that's just my opinion.

[polishgenius]

Abyss, on 08 January 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

I think we're pretty universal on praise for GGK's LIONS and the SARANTINE duology.

I read Sarantine recently. I found it good, but kind of aimless at places. Like Kay had the bones of a story and a few important scenes that are great but didn't necessarily know how to join them all together.

[amphibian]

This is what GGK does to us.

It's like a way better version of the effect the Yearded One (Terry Goodkind) has on us. That effect by the way is almost always disappointment that the promise of the first book was wasted, scorn at everything else,wonder at his dedicated fans and evil chicken talk.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 09 January 2015 - 02:07 AM

[Andorion]

amphibian, on 09 January 2015 - 02:06 AM, said:

This is what GGK does to us.

It's like a way better version of the effect the Yearded One (Terry Goodkind) has on us. That effect by the way is almost always disappointment that the promise of the first book was wasted, scorn at everything else,wonder at his dedicated fans and evil chicken talk.

There are evil chickens in GGK too? Those critters sure get around don't they?

Seriously though this reminds me of when I asked about WoT and some people were saying "Don't bother" Others were like"Read it but you won't like it" otheres went "It ruined my life!!!" and a few were actually in favour of it. I honestly did not think GGK would be that polarising as I remember reading good things about his writing somewhere

[amphibian]

Andorion, on 09 January 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

Seriously though this reminds me of when I asked about WoT and some people were saying "Don't bother" Others were like"Read it but you won't like it" otheres went "It ruined my life!!!" and a few were actually in favour of it. I honestly did not think GGK would be that polarising as I remember reading good things about his writing somewhere

The thing that differentiates WoT from GGK (in my view) is that for the most part, the people that dislike WoT do so for the same set of reasons and the people that dislike GGK's various works do so for a very diverse set of reasons.

I don't like Under Heaven much because X and Y (which I've actually said before in detail elsewhere). Others have a Z or W that they dislike or for someone else, X Y and/or Z are great. This repeats for almost every one of GGK's books*. It's amazing how it happens for him in particular and for so many books, but it has led to actual book-focused vitriol here as a result.

*Except Ysabel, which everyone says is the worst thing he's written.

[Abyss]

amphibian, on 09 January 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

Andorion, on 09 January 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

Seriously though this reminds me of when I asked about WoT and some people were saying "Don't bother" Others were like"Read it but you won't like it" otheres went "It ruined my life!!!" and a few were actually in favour of it. I honestly did not think GGK would be that polarising as I remember reading good things about his writing somewhere

The thing that differentiates WoT from GGK (in my view) is that for the most part, the people that dislike WoT do so for the same set of reasons and the people that dislike GGK's various works do so for a very diverse set of reasons.

I don't like Under Heaven much because X and Y (which I've actually said before in detail elsewhere). Others have a Z or W that they dislike or for someone else, X Y and/or Z are great. This repeats for almost every one of GGK's books*. It's amazing how it happens for him in particular and for so many books, but it has led to actual book-focused vitriol here as a result.

*Except Ysabel, which everyone says is the worst thing he's written.

I think it's partly bcs GGK tends to write at extreme ends of whatever he's channeling for a given book.... If a book is political, it's very political, if it's religious, anthropological, warrior culture, whatever... He tends to engage fairly strongly, within his own particular style. Hence it generates a similarly strong response.
Including YSABEL, which was strongly bad.

[End of Disc One]

Yeah with WoT most fans agree, for example, that books 7-10 is the low point of the series (unless you're Terez or another superfan). With GGK I haven't seen any consensus on which books are his best or worst. Except Ysabel I suppose, is considered to be one of his worst.

I haven't read any GGK yet. I'm planning to read Lions first based on the advice from this baord.

[QuickTidal]

Chiming in that Ysabel is HORRIBLE. It was also my first attempt at GGK and it took Abyss and everyone else a while to get me to give his other work a chance (all of which I now love, starting with LIONS).

So yeah, AVOID YSABEL like the plague.

[Andorion]

Iam three chapters into Lions and I am hooked. Saw a couple of things coming, but the writing is great, and I like the characters. Very interesting to set it in a Moorish Spain pastiche.

[End of Disc One]

So on my list of stuff I'm interested in reading (but have not offically put on my TRP yet) there are a few fantasy authors that I've seen a lot of praise for that (I think) are supposed to be more "literary".

Guy Gavriel Kay
China Mieville
Gene Wolf

Which of these should I check out first?

[Baco Xtath]

End of Disc One, on 09 January 2015 - 10:23 PM, said:

So on my list of stuff I'm interested in reading (but have not offically put on my TRP yet) there are a few fantasy authors that I've seen a lot of praise for that (I think) are supposed to be more "literary".

Guy Gavriel Kay
China Mieville
Gene Wolf

Which of these should I check out first?

I would suggest Book of the New Sun first (all four parts) then, if you want to go weirder with harder prose, go Perdido Street Station followed by the Scar, but if you want a breather from the fantasicals and a more poetic/flowery touch, go either Lions of Al-Rassan or the Sarantine Mosaic.

Or, if you want a crazy mystery story, check out City in the City

If you want a beautiful Asian inspired epic, read Under Heaven then River of Stars (though it isn't as good IMO)

If you're a fan of language and science fiction, read Embassytown.

If you want farm boy turned bad ass highest fantasy, read Wizard Knight.

You can't go too wrong with anything from Wolfe, Mieville, or Kay (except Ysabel).

[amphibian]

The most approachable of the three in terms of overall books for most people will be GGK.

I rate Wolfe the highest of the three, but consider one particular Mieville work to be one of the best works in literature in the last 20 years. Saltman-Z and I regularly re-read Wolfe and enjoy that tremendously (although Saltman sticks to New Sun alone and I go for the full Solar Cycle, which is 11 books or so).

I'd go with Baco Xtath's advice up above.

[Nicodimas]

Cool ill try this wolfe guy you all are talking bout.

[Salt-Man Z]

Yep, I'm finishing my fifth read of THE BOOK OF THE NEW SUN as we speak. It honestly didn't blow me away the first time, but it stuck with me, so I reread it a year later and now it's my second-favorite book. (I count it as a single book like LOTR is a single book, also because I own the SFBC omnibus edition.)

The great thing about Wolfe is he's written a ton of short stories, so you can try those out if you don't want to jump into a novel or series (or if you bounce off one and want to try something else.) STARWATER STRAINS is probably my favorite collection.

This post has been edited by Salt-Man Z: 10 January 2015 - 06:30 AM

[Abyss]

QuickTidal, on 09 January 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

Chiming in that Ysabel is HORRIBLE. It was also my first attempt at GGK and it took Abyss and everyone else a while to get me to give his other work a chance (all of which I now love, starting with LIONS).

So yeah, AVOID YSABEL like the plague.

Oh gods... YSABEL ... No one warns anyone about this but it's a sequel of sorts to THE FIONAVAR TAPESTRY (which isn't bad at all, if a bit dated)... As a first GGK...yikes.

Andorion, on 09 January 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

Iam three chapters into Lions and I am hooked. Saw a couple of things coming, but the writing is great, and I like the characters. Very interesting to set it in a Moorish Spain pastiche.

Comrades, our work here is done.

End of Disc One, on 09 January 2015 - 10:23 PM, said:

So on my list of stuff I'm interested in reading (but have not offically put on my TRP yet) there are a few fantasy authors that I've seen a lot of praise for that (I think) are supposed to be more "literary".

Guy Gavriel Kay
China Mieville
Gene Wolf

Which of these should I check out first?

Yes.

..ok, fine... Wolfe is old school fantasy/sf with heavy themes and rich but drawn out storytelling. You need patience for Wolfe but he rewards it.
GGK is intelligent fantasy. You feel smarter for reading his books, except for TIGANA which will make you feel dirty and YSABEL which will make you feel ripped off.
Mieville... Is many things... His urban fantasy KRAKEN is brilliant fun and one of my faves of that subgenre... his BAS LAG books run from gloriously original to subversively political and THE SCAR has Armada, one of my favoritest settings ever... EMBASSYTOWN was interesting but not nearly as clever as it tried to be.

[QuickTidal]

Finished Vandermeer's AUTHORITY, and was pretty well blown away. It's hard to describe the book, or the series for that matter...but author Robin Sloane's book flap blurb is the best I've seen..."If ANNIHILATION (the 1st book) is an expedition novel painted with a thick coat of weird then AUTHORTY is a spy novel given the same dark laquer." It's like you're reading this thirller-y novel which is kind of an investiagtion of the gov't entity who are in charge of SENDING expeditions into Area X and everything will be going along fine for a few pages and then without realizing it you being to question the same things the main character questions and look down to find your feet mired in molasses. It's weird and wonderful. I've got the 3rd book in my ToRead pile, but I'm saving it for my trip in February.

Started Patrick Lee's RUNNER last night. Good stuff so far, and man does he get to the action right away. The book takes off like a shot on like page 2!

[polishgenius]

I finished Iron Night and gents, you really should ignore the terrible covers and get reading the Generation V series. I laughed a lot, I got tense a lot, and at one point I got genuinely shocked and angry at something a villain did- that doesn't happen often, certainly not this soon into a series of books this short. Well up there with any of the urban fantasy kicks.
Me likey.

[Hound]

polishgenius, on 10 January 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

I finished Iron Night and gents, you really should ignore the terrible covers and get reading the Generation V series. I laughed a lot, I got tense a lot, and at one point I got genuinely shocked and angry at something a villain did- that doesn't happen often, certainly not this soon into a series of books this short. Well up there with any of the urban fantasy kicks.
Me likey.

I totally agree with you! I've read all three Generation V books (after you recommended the first one here) and they're great. Love the family dynamics.

[Nicodimas]

QuickTidal, on 10 January 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

Finished Vandermeer's AUTHORITY, and was pretty well blown away. It's hard to describe the book, or the series for that matter...but author Robin Sloane's book flap blurb is the best I've seen..."If ANNIHILATION (the 1st book) is an expedition novel painted with a thick coat of weird then AUTHORTY is a spy novel given the same dark laquer." It's like you're reading this thirller-y novel which is kind of an investiagtion of the gov't entity who are in charge of SENDING expeditions into Area X and everything will be going along fine for a few pages and then without realizing it you being to question the same things the main character questions and look down to find your feet mired in molasses. It's weird and wonderful. I've got the 3rd book in my ToRead pile, but I'm saving it for my trip in February.

Started Patrick Lee's RUNNER last night. Good stuff so far, and man does he get to the action right away. The book takes off like a shot on like page 2!

I am in the same boat with Vandermeer..im saving this stuff for a second to think on it..unreal!