[Andorion]

amphibian, on 19 November 2014 - 04:08 AM, said:

Andorion, did you read the Ringworld books? There's an interconnected series of books in the Ringworld/Fleet of Worlds series that's all worth checking out (I think 9 books at the last of my counts).

I have not as yet read the Ringworld books. After Heorot, I might take them up. But I am confused about the sequece. Does Fleet of Worlds come first, or Ringworld? Have to look up a read order. Its been some time since I got a bunch of Niven books, and haven't touched them for some time.

[amphibian]

Fleet stuff is a prequel series, but it might be better to read order of publication.

I read Fleet and so on first, then went over to Ringworld without any problems - but my reading experience with put of order books and shows is usually atypical.

Comes from a couple years as a wee one watching the Maharabharata on vhs completely out of order or even coherence. The rental store never had them ready in order and my father never cared.

[Serenity]

polishgenius, on 18 November 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

I've heard such mixed things on Iggulden. Apparently 'historical' is quite a generous description of what he writes, in terms of accuracy.

I did feel that Iggulden took a few too many liberties in Emperor: The Gates of Rome. It's more like historical fantasy and reads a lot like David Gemmell - neither of which is a criticism. For me, if people read these books and it gets them to go and investigate the actual history, then that's a good thing - just so long as they don't take Iggulden's version as fact (I actually know someone who's done this!). I have read the first two Conqueror books, as well, and enjoyed them.


I'm currently about 550 pages into Shogun and loving it. It's given me the urge to go and re-watch some Kurosawa . . .

Andorion, on 19 November 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

Reading Larry Nivens Legacy of Heorot. Nice book, and I love it so far.

Great book! Think some credit has to go to Pournelle and Barnes, too

This post has been edited by Serenity: 19 November 2014 - 10:29 AM

[acesn8s]

Finished Emperor of Thorns. A nice solid ending to the series. Now I can venture into the Thorn's thread.

Starting Shadowplay today. I have books 3 & 4 in the queue. I hope to finish the series by New Years.

[QuickTidal]

Serenity, on 19 November 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

polishgenius, on 18 November 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

I've heard such mixed things on Iggulden. Apparently 'historical' is quite a generous description of what he writes, in terms of accuracy.

I did feel that Iggulden took a few too many liberties in Emperor: The Gates of Rome. It's more like historical fantasy and reads a lot like David Gemmell - neither of which is a criticism. For me, if people read these books and it gets them to go and investigate the actual history, then that's a good thing - just so long as they don't take Iggulden's version as fact (I actually know someone who's done this!). I have read the first two Conqueror books, as well, and enjoyed them.

I'm confused how anyone could take it all as fact, Iggulden (at least in the Canadian versions of the Rome books) spends pages at the end of each volume speaking to what he made up, what is historical fact, and what is argued over. Perhaps there are other versions that don't include these footnote/explanation type pages?

Anyways, I'm 100 pages into the second Khan book LORDS OF THE BOW, and loving it. It's awesome to have listened to all 5 parts of Dan Carlin's Hardcore History podcast about the Khan, so I know going in who people like Tsubodai are, and what the Xi Xia Empire represents, or how Genghis' eldest son Jochi was in dispute of his parentage and was treated harshly by his father. It's cool to know a little about all that stuff going in. Makes the books that much more enjoyable to read. As usual the pace in these books is pretty insane. I find I can't stop reading.

[Tattersail_]

Ready to buy either

Lies of Locke Lamora - Scott Lynch

or

A Land Fit for Heroes - Richard Morgan

Which one? I think Tiste should answer because his tastes run close to mine but all opinions welcome.

[Obdigore]

Tattersail_, on 19 November 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Ready to buy either

Lies of Locke Lamora - Scott Lynch

or

A Land Fit for Heroes - Richard Morgan

Which one? I think Tiste should answer because his tastes run close to mine but all opinions welcome.

Purchase both.

[Tattersail_]

Obdigore, on 19 November 2014 - 04:07 PM, said:

Tattersail_, on 19 November 2014 - 03:03 PM, said:

Ready to buy either

Lies of Locke Lamora - Scott Lynch

or

A Land Fit for Heroes - Richard Morgan

Which one? I think Tiste should answer because his tastes run close to mine but all opinions welcome.

Purchase both.

Which would you recommend first, mr money bags

[QuickTidal]

I'm in the buy both camp.

Both are great for different reasons.

Lamora is a Capery, Oceans 11 fantasy novel.

Morgan's first LFFH book is a dark and gritty epic fantasy novel with three leads who are all gray in one way or another.

Depends what you are in the mood for.

[Tattersail_]

QuickTidal, on 19 November 2014 - 04:15 PM, said:

I'm in the buy both camp.

Both are great for different reasons.

Lamora is a Capery, Oceans 11 fantasy novel.

Morgan's first LFFH book is a dark and gritty epic fantasy novel with three leads who are all gray in one way or another.

Depends what you are in the mood for.

Out of the two I think I'd fancy reading Richard Morgan but what is the book called? Where should I start?

Edit. "The Steel remains" seems likely?

This post has been edited by Tattersail_: 19 November 2014 - 05:03 PM

[Andorion]

amphibian, on 19 November 2014 - 05:59 AM, said:

Fleet stuff is a prequel series, but it might be better to read order of publication.

I read Fleet and so on first, then went over to Ringworld without any problems - but my reading experience with put of order books and shows is usually atypical.

Comes from a couple years as a wee one watching the Maharabharata on vhs completely out of order or even coherence. The rental store never had them ready in order and my father never cared.

I was googling away and I found this:

The Near Future
·after 1975 "The Coldest Place"
·after 1975 "Becalmed in Hell"
·1989 "Wait it Out"
·1996? "Eye of an Octopus"
·2042 "How the Heroes Die"
The Early Interstellar Era
·2099? "The Jigsaw Man"
·2106 World of Ptavvs
·2112 "At the Bottom of a Hole"
·2113 "Intent to Deceive" (orig. "TheDeceivers")
·2123 "Death by Ecstasy" (orig. "TheOrganleggers")
·2124 - 25 "The Defenseless Dead"
·2125 Protector— 1st half (orig. "TheAdults")
·2126 "ARM"
·2126 The Patchwork Girl
·2127 "The Woman in Del Rey Crater"
·2135? "Cloak of Anarchy"
The Intermediate Era
·2322 - 67 "The Ethics of Madness"— 1st part
·2341 A Gift from Earth
·2341 - c. 52 Protector— 2nd half
·c. 2361 Protector— epilogue
·2379 - 86 "The Ethics of Madness"— 2nd part (overlapsMan-Kzin Wars era)
The Man-Kzin Wars
·2366 "The Warriors"
·2366 "Telepath's Dance" by Hal Colebatch
·2375 - c. '84 "Madness Has Its Place"
·c. 2384 "Choosing Names"
The Beowulf Shaeffer Era
·2637-57 Juggler of Worlds— 1st part
·2641 "Neutron Star"
·2644 "A Relic of the Empire"
·2645 "At the Core"
·2645 "Flatlander"
·c. 2646 "The Handicapped" (orig. "Handicap")
·2647 "Grendel"
·2650 - 52 Fleet of Worlds
·2651 "The Borderland of Sol"
·2654 - 55 "Procrustes"
·2655 "Ghost"

·2656 "Fly-By-Night"
·2657 "The Soft Weapon"
·2658-60 Juggler of Worlds— 2nd part
·2670-2 Destroyer of Worlds
·c. 2685 "The Colour of Sunfire"
·2780-2 Betrayer of Worlds
The Ringworld Era
·2830 "There Is a Tide"
·2850 - 51 Ringworld
·2878 - 81 The Ringworld Engineers
·2882 - 93 The Ringworld Throne
·2893 Ringworld's Children
·2899 "The Hunting Park"
The Thousand Worlds
·c. 3105 "Safe at Any Speed"

Its a read order of all the books including the short stories. Now I have the novels, but I dont think I have all the short stories. Whether I want to take on such a humongous project right now is also another point I am not sure about.




Seeing Mahabharata out of sequence? That must have been weird. Was this the old Hindi Mahabharata?

[Andorion]

Serenity, on 19 November 2014 - 10:28 AM, said:

polishgenius, on 18 November 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

I've heard such mixed things on Iggulden. Apparently 'historical' is quite a generous description of what he writes, in terms of accuracy.

I did feel that Iggulden took a few too many liberties in Emperor: The Gates of Rome. It's more like historical fantasy and reads a lot like David Gemmell - neither of which is a criticism. For me, if people read these books and it gets them to go and investigate the actual history, then that's a good thing - just so long as they don't take Iggulden's version as fact (I actually know someone who's done this!). I have read the first two Conqueror books, as well, and enjoyed them.


I'm currently about 550 pages into Shogun and loving it. It's given me the urge to go and re-watch some Kurosawa . . .

Andorion, on 19 November 2014 - 03:02 AM, said:

Reading Larry Nivens Legacy of Heorot. Nice book, and I love it so far.

Great book! Think some credit has to go to Pournelle and Barnes, too

Halfway into Heorot, and I am loving this book. Lots of really favourite old sci-fi themes dealt with very nicely here.

[polishgenius]

QuickTidal, on 19 November 2014 - 12:07 AM, said:

polishgenius, on 18 November 2014 - 09:15 PM, said:

I've heard such mixed things on Iggulden. Apparently 'historical' is quite a generous description of what he writes, in terms of accuracy.

You can fit nearly 75% of ALL historical fiction authors under that statement. That's where the "fiction" bit comes in.

Iggulden, like Cornwell, spends a few pages at the end summing up what he made up, what he had to speculate on, and what historians argue over.

In fact, the Khan books have to have a lot of author input in them simply becuase what we DO know of Genghis Khan is not only very little (we don't know where & when he was born, when exactly he died, where he is buried ect. ...there aren't even any quotes that can accurately be tied to him)...but moreover the fact that SO many historians from so many cultures over so many years have so many differing views on the Mongols in general...there is no one through-tale that is the truth.

As far as I'm concerned, accuracy, when it comes to history in general is not necesarily the best word to use. Only societies that are meticulously docmenented in writen word as they occured can be accurate. Everything else is largely stories from different people...and people rarely agree on the small stuff.

Iggulden makes up the small stuff.

I'm aware that historical fiction usually features some liberties to follow the demands of storytelling, but the accusations I've seen levelled at Iggulden (particularly in the Roman stuff) is a lot stronger than the usual. Like completely manufacturing a backstory where Caesar and Brutus grew up together, or sidelining other important figures of the era by giving their achievements to Caesar. And it's precisely that some of the stuff he changes is pretty big that bugs people.

This post has been edited by polishgenius: 19 November 2014 - 07:37 PM

[Macros]

I'd rate the Emperor series as a lot worse than the Mongol series, not on historical accuracy (anyone looking for accuracy, or some degree of it, read a textbook, not something with the word Fiction composing half of its description) just as an actual series.
I could be wrong but I think he wrote the first 4 Emperor books before the Mongol books, and it shows, the mongol books seem to flow better and are simply better written, with a tighter (possibly the wrong word) feel to the story and prose.

On the criticisms leveled at Conn, ~shrug~ if historical accuracy bothers you, don't read his work, he never set out to tell the truth (a debatable thing in history at best), he set out to tell a story in a given time period and location.
Treat the novels more as fiction set in known historical locations, and you'll get far more mileage out of them. That being said, had some of the events (for example Marius vs Sulla) actually happened as in his novels, it would have been awesome. the comparison to Gemmell for the emperor series is a fair enough one, view it as a poor mans Troy.



@QT - the 5th book in the emperor series is quite short and just feels so lacking on every front that made the first 4 enjoyable for me, characters, story lines and set pieces. If you see it cheap read it for closure on the series, but I would be quite happy now, having read it, having not read it, it adds very little overall to the series.

[amphibian]

Andorion, on 19 November 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

I was googling away and I found this:

The Near Future
·after 1975 "The Coldest Place"
·after 1975 "Becalmed in Hell"
·1989 "Wait it Out"
·1996? "Eye of an Octopus"
·2042 "How the Heroes Die"
The Early Interstellar Era
·2099? "The Jigsaw Man"
·2106 World of Ptavvs
·2112 "At the Bottom of a Hole"
·2113 "Intent to Deceive" (orig. "TheDeceivers")
·2123 "Death by Ecstasy" (orig. "TheOrganleggers")
·2124 - 25 "The Defenseless Dead"
·2125 Protector— 1st half (orig. "TheAdults")
·2126 "ARM"
·2126 The Patchwork Girl
·2127 "The Woman in Del Rey Crater"
·2135? "Cloak of Anarchy"
The Intermediate Era
·2322 - 67 "The Ethics of Madness"— 1st part
·2341 A Gift from Earth
·2341 - c. 52 Protector— 2nd half
·c. 2361 Protector— epilogue
·2379 - 86 "The Ethics of Madness"— 2nd part (overlapsMan-Kzin Wars era)
The Man-Kzin Wars
·2366 "The Warriors"
·2366 "Telepath's Dance" by Hal Colebatch
·2375 - c. '84 "Madness Has Its Place"
·c. 2384 "Choosing Names"
The Beowulf Shaeffer Era
·2637-57 Juggler of Worlds— 1st part
·2641 "Neutron Star"
·2644 "A Relic of the Empire"
·2645 "At the Core"
·2645 "Flatlander"
·c. 2646 "The Handicapped" (orig. "Handicap")
·2647 "Grendel"
·2650 - 52 Fleet of Worlds
·2651 "The Borderland of Sol"
·2654 - 55 "Procrustes"
·2655 "Ghost"

·2656 "Fly-By-Night"
·2657 "The Soft Weapon"
·2658-60 Juggler of Worlds— 2nd part
·2670-2 Destroyer of Worlds
·c. 2685 "The Colour of Sunfire"
·2780-2 Betrayer of Worlds
The Ringworld Era
·2830 "There Is a Tide"
·2850 - 51 Ringworld
·2878 - 81 The Ringworld Engineers
·2882 - 93 The Ringworld Throne
·2893 Ringworld's Children
·2899 "The Hunting Park"
The Thousand Worlds
·c. 3105 "Safe at Any Speed"

Its a read order of all the books including the short stories. Now I have the novels, but I dont think I have all the short stories. Whether I want to take on such a humongous project right now is also another point I am not sure about.




Seeing Mahabharata out of sequence? That must have been weird. Was this the old Hindi Mahabharata?

The whole Ringworld thing is quite good. I didn't read the Man Kzin thing though.

The Mahabharata was probably late eighties or very early 90s tv version from India and put on like 35+ vhs tapes at the local Indian food store. Nobody ever had a complete set and my father didn't care that much. Just wanted to have some familiar stuff to watch.

[worry]

Fizzing Whizbees

[End of Disc One]

Ringjob

[amphibian]

Briar King, on 19 November 2014 - 09:20 PM, said:

What's the term for fucking in these bks again?

Rishathra or rishing.

It took me a few moments to put the memories together, stop laughing at the dumbass way Niven worked around censoring/his own sensibilities regarding the act of "having sex with an alien", and then put it here again.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 20 November 2014 - 03:30 AM

[Andorion]

amphibian, on 19 November 2014 - 09:08 PM, said:

Andorion, on 19 November 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

I was googling away and I found this:

The Near Future
· after 1975 "The Coldest Place"
· after 1975 "Becalmed in Hell"
· 1989 "Wait it Out"
· 1996? "Eye of an Octopus"
· 2042 "How the Heroes Die"
The Early Interstellar Era
· 2099? "The Jigsaw Man"
· 2106 World of Ptavvs
· 2112 "At the Bottom of a Hole"
· 2113 "Intent to Deceive" (orig. "TheDeceivers")
· 2123 "Death by Ecstasy" (orig. "TheOrganleggers")
· 2124 - 25 "The Defenseless Dead"
· 2125 Protector— 1st half (orig. "TheAdults")
· 2126 "ARM"
· 2126 The Patchwork Girl
· 2127 "The Woman in Del Rey Crater"
· 2135? "Cloak of Anarchy"
The Intermediate Era
· 2322 - 67 "The Ethics of Madness"— 1st part
· 2341 A Gift from Earth
· 2341 - c. 52 Protector— 2nd half
· c. 2361 Protector— epilogue
· 2379 - 86 "The Ethics of Madness"— 2nd part (overlapsMan-Kzin Wars era)
The Man-Kzin Wars
· 2366 "The Warriors"
· 2366 "Telepath's Dance" by Hal Colebatch
· 2375 - c. '84 "Madness Has Its Place"
· c. 2384 "Choosing Names"
The Beowulf Shaeffer Era
· 2637-57 Juggler of Worlds— 1st part
· 2641 "Neutron Star"
· 2644 "A Relic of the Empire"
· 2645 "At the Core"
· 2645 "Flatlander"
· c. 2646 "The Handicapped" (orig. "Handicap")
· 2647 "Grendel"
· 2650 - 52 Fleet of Worlds
· 2651 "The Borderland of Sol"
· 2654 - 55 "Procrustes"
· 2655 "Ghost"

· 2656 "Fly-By-Night"
· 2657 "The Soft Weapon"
· 2658-60 Juggler of Worlds— 2nd part
· 2670-2 Destroyer of Worlds
· c. 2685 "The Colour of Sunfire"
· 2780-2 Betrayer of Worlds
The Ringworld Era
· 2830 "There Is a Tide"
· 2850 - 51 Ringworld
· 2878 - 81 The Ringworld Engineers
· 2882 - 93 The Ringworld Throne
· 2893 Ringworld's Children
· 2899 "The Hunting Park"
The Thousand Worlds
· c. 3105 "Safe at Any Speed"

Its a read order of all the books including the short stories. Now I have the novels, but I dont think I have all the short stories. Whether I want to take on such a humongous project right now is also another point I am not sure about.



Seeing Mahabharata out of sequence? That must have been weird. Was this the old Hindi Mahabharata?

The whole Ringworld thing is quite good. I didn't read the Man Kzin thing though.

The Mahabharata was probably late eighties or very early 90s tv version from India and put on like 35+ vhs tapes at the local Indian food store. Nobody ever had a complete set and my father didn't care that much. Just wanted to have some familiar stuff to watch.

I remember, when I was very young, Mahabharata was telecast on sundays just before lunch, and it was a huge family watch. And after every episode, my father's two aunts and my grandmother would go into lengthy debates about the accuracy of the episode versus the text.

[polishgenius]

Macros, on 19 November 2014 - 07:52 PM, said:

I'd rate the Emperor series as a lot worse than the Mongol series, not on historical accuracy (anyone looking for accuracy, or some degree of it, read a textbook, not something with the word Fiction composing half of its description) just as an actual series.

I'm not really in a hurry to read Iggulden anyway, but by the same token, if he's that dissatisfied with the way history actually happened, do what Guy Gavriel Kay or indeed Gemmell do/did and don't even bother pretending that it's actual history.