[D'iversify]

Assyrians were the Ur-Evil Empire. I mean, they pretty much invented mass ethnic cleansing (not that it hasn't been independently invented elsewhere, e.g. look up the Inca policy of Mitma). Rome. on the other hand, perfectly combined hegemony by brutality and by cultural assimilation. So, you know, pretty evil but convinced plenty of people they were great.

[stone monkey]

If you want to project historical empires onto fantasy fiction, you could argue that the Romans, to a great extent, look a lot like the Malazans.I would advise that if you want to look at historical evil that's a bit closer to home, both geographically and temporally, you can't do much better than Culloden and The Highland Clearances, both by John Prebble. They're quite old (originally published in the late 60s iirc) but they would definitely give an insight, for you non-Brits, of why the Scots hate the English so much. They remind me a lot of Holland's brand of narrative history, but without the arch good humour.

Back on topic: interestingly enough, one of the things I'm currently reading is In the Shadow of the Sword; which is Tom Holland's take on Late Antiquity in the Middle East and the rise of Islam.

And one final thing. Holland, judging by this piece in The Guardian, is also a fan of A Game of Thrones...

This post has been edited by stone monkey: 10 June 2013 - 07:12 PM

[Morgoth]

I'm not arguing that Rome perpetrated the most evil in the world, though the conquest of Gaul seems to be pretty close to the mark. What I mean when I say that the Roman empire was evil, is that their whole branch of morality is to me evil.

Though you may be right, SM. Quite possibly it's how alien their whole value system seems to me.

[Tapper]

stone monkey, on 10 June 2013 - 06:57 PM, said:

Back on topic: interestingly enough, one of the things I'm currently reading is In the Shadow of the Sword; which is Tom Holland's take on Late Antiquity in the Middle East and the rise of Islam.

And one final thing. Holland, judging by this piece in The Guardian, is also a fan of A Game of Thrones...

Hehehe, I'm about halfway in the Forge of Christendom, which deals with the millenium period in medieval Europe.
And he may be a fan, but to by-pass all other fantasy by stating only Tolkien rivals it, shows he hasn't read much around on the genre

[Abyss]

Rajaniemi's FRACTAL PRINCE. And it's awesome.... Everything i thought QUANTUM THEIF was missing and more.

[polishgenius]

I didn't think it was AWESOME but it was very good, and definitely an improvement on Quantum Thief, with the addition of some much needed swagger and flair.



Currently reading Mike Cole's Fortress Frontier, the second book in the Shadow Ops series. It's good, reads very easy and the concept is still as interesting as it was in the first one, but I'm slightly surprised coz I'm roughly two-thirds in and it still feels like essentially prologue. Like the first book managed to pack quite a lot in despite being relatively short, this is the opposite so far.

Also got Caliban's War by the James S.A. Corey duo and The Devil's Nebula by Eric Brown from the library on the stack, plus That Near-Death Thing by Rick Broadbent to follow up on my sudden interest in the Isle of Man TT having seen the film about it. By happy coincidence, this looks at the buildup to the race the year after the one the film did, which makes for a nice progression...

I'm on one of my read-as-much-as-I-can runs at the moment. Woohoo.

[Morgoth]

Abyss, on 11 June 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Rajaniemi's FRACTAL PRINCE. And it's awesome.... Everything i thought QUANTUM THEIF was missing and more.

I'm not a man fond of saying I told you so.

[Vengeance]

stone monkey, on 10 June 2013 - 06:46 PM, said:

Morgoth, on 10 June 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

So I'm readin Rubicon by Tom Holland after having quite enjoyed Persian Fire by the same author.

So far, what I'm learning from the book is that Rome as a society was evil. Not as in mean, or cruel or whatever. Evil.

If I were to design an evil fantasy empire (which I wont, mind) I would have constructed it much the way Holland paints Roman society.

tbh I'm not sure so much that the Romans necessarily were evil. They certainly wouldn't have thought so. Although they do look it from our perspective.I think it's more that their moral code, which they made much of, makes them essentially aliens to our way of thinking. Although, given a millenium of perspective, how would a future society regard our morals, behaviour and cultural obsessions?

Glad to see that you're enjoying Rubicon, it is a book that certainly opens your eyes about a few things. The picture Holland paints of Roman society is both fascinating and appalling in equal measure, I think.

I thought that the Rubicon was a decent read. For a better look at the Roman culture I prefer Colleen McCullough's Masters of Rome series.

[Studlock]

I always find it weird that people find the Roman's to be 'evil' as if there cultural legacy can't be seen in how the British (and by extension the Crown's 'children') or French interacted with larger parts of the world with larger amounts of people suffering under their foreign thumb and (sorry for the run-on sentence haha) can arguable will a far longer lasting effect on the world than the Roman ever did. My people suffered greatly under the watch of the Canadian gov't and it's churches but I would never call Canada itself evil, misguided and destructive yes, but evil? Never.

On that fully-loaded note (sorry) I'm about to start Six-Gun Tarot by R.S. Belcher and I'm both dreading and excited for the experience. I love Westerns which ironically have some of the best descriptions of First Nations of any genre, and I also love weird fantasy. Six-Gun Tarot apparently has it all going in on, it even has a American Indian important to the plot. Sadly the man's name is Mutt and is a shapechanger. I don't know much about the beliefs and myth of the Southwest so it might be a-ok to have a half coyote half human shapeshifter but I'll have to do more research. It will either be a really great read for me or a really bad one. Wish me luck.

[Morgoth]

Studlock, on 12 June 2013 - 12:03 PM, said:

I always find it weird that people find the Roman's to be 'evil' as if there cultural legacy can't be seen in how the British (and by extension the Crown's 'children') or French interacted with larger parts of the world with larger amounts of people suffering under their foreign thumb and (sorry for the run-on sentence haha) can arguable will a far longer lasting effect on the world than the Roman ever did. My people suffered greatly under the watch of the Canadian gov't and it's churches but I would never call Canada itself evil, misguided and destructive yes, but evil? Never.

On that fully-loaded note (sorry) I'm about to start Six-Gun Tarot by R.S. Belcher and I'm both dreading and excited for the experience. I love Westerns which ironically have some of the best descriptions of First Nations of any genre, and I also love weird fantasy. Six-Gun Tarot apparently has it all going in on, it even has a American Indian important to the plot. Sadly the man's name is Mutt and is a shapechanger. I don't know much about the beliefs and myth of the Southwest so it might be a-ok to have a half coyote half human shapeshifter but I'll have to do more research. It will either be a really great read for me or a really bad one. Wish me luck.

I'm just going to repost what I wrote above. Not very expansive, true, but just in case you thought you were arguing against me with that first paragraph.

I'm not arguing that Rome perpetrated the most evil in the world, though the conquest of Gaul seems to be pretty close to the mark. What I mean when I say that the Roman empire was evil, is that their whole branch of morality is to me evil.

Though you may be right, SM. Quite possibly it's how alien their whole value system seems to me.

[QuickTidal]

Okay. let's not derail the "reading" thread yeah?

Take it to the discussion forums please.

[Serenity]

Finished Bring Up the Bodies. Awesome, my favourite read of the year so far

[stone monkey]

Morgoth, on 11 June 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Abyss, on 11 June 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Rajaniemi's FRACTAL PRINCE. And it's awesome.... Everything i thought QUANTUM THEIF was missing and more.

I'm not a man fond of saying I told you so.

The 3rd book, The Causal Angel has a release date of 17 April 2014 according to Fantastic Fiction... I shall make the "I told you so"'s into a duet, I think

[Abyss]

Abyss, on 11 June 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Rajaniemi's FRACTAL PRINCE. And it's awesome.... Everything i thought QUANTUM THEIF was missing and more.

polishgenius, on 11 June 2013 - 04:22 PM, said:

I didn't think it was AWESOME but it was very good, and definitely an improvement on Quantum Thief, with the addition of some much needed swagger and flair.
...

It was AWESOME. I'll explain in the dedthread.

Morgoth, on 11 June 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

Abyss, on 11 June 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Rajaniemi's FRACTAL PRINCE. And it's awesome.... Everything i thought QUANTUM THEIF was missing and more.

I'm not a man fond of saying I told you so.

Oh yes you are.

[polishgenius]

It's possible that I would have thought it was AWESOME if I hadn't read it directly after the Hydrogen Sonata, since although there are no direct similarities both Banks and Rajaniemi play in the same post-singularity, crowded-sky, puzzlebox-storytelling ballpark, and good as Rajaniemi is, that comparison was always going to be tough to live up to.

But I did read it then, so eh.

A reread of both books is probably due at some point.


Currently reading The Devil's Nebula by Eric Brown. So far it's so Firefly it hurts, but it's decent fun. No indication that it's even remotely going to live up to the only other Eric Brown I've read so far though, Kethani, which is a genuine masterpiece and one of the best pieces of SF I've ever read. Totally different though - this is full blown space opera, Kethani is a moral examination of alien intervention and potential immortality that never physically leaves a small corner of Yorkshire.

Interestingly, what I hadn't realised when I picked it up, Devil's Nebula is the beginning of a planned shared-world project that Abaddon Books are planning which Brown has set up for them with this and another book coming I think later in the year. Ambitious, which is to be applauded, but so far I can't see anything about further names who'll play in said sandpit...

[Kruppe's snacky cakes]

118. Showcase Presents Superman Family Volume 3 - More silver age goofiness. Lots of practical jokes to teach someone (typically Lois or Jimmy) a lesson. Lots of overly elaborate plots to trick a criminal into getting caught. Superman seems to spend more time running errands, both exotic (e.g. retrieving a space artifact) and mundane (e.g. installing telephone poles) than he does fighting bad guys. Still, I think I prefer this to the ultra-serious tone of today's superhero comics.

119. Star Wars: Allegiance by Timothy Zahn - A pre- Empire Strikes Back novel...and a good one, of course. It's Zahn, after all.

120. The Anubis Gates by Tim Powers - I was expecting a traditional time travel story, but this was more of a historical fantasy, so it was a bit of a letdown.

121. Consider Phlebas by Iain M. Banks - Like others who have commented on this book recently, I was expecting something more profound, given the reputation of this series. I did find it to be a nice entertaining space adventure, on a par with a good Star Wars book. Certainly good enough to seek out more of the Culture novels. By the way, R.I.P. to Mr. Banks. I've lost two extended family members and a family friend to cancer over the last 6 months or so. It's 2013, geez, we ought to have cured this stuff by now.

[Chance]

Kruppe, on 14 June 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

121. Consider Phlebas by Iain M. Banks - Like others who have commented on this book recently, I was expecting something more profound, given the reputation of this series. I did find it to be a nice entertaining space adventure, on a par with a good Star Wars book. Certainly good enough to seek out more of the Culture novels. By the way, R.I.P. to Mr. Banks. I've lost two extended family members and a family friend to cancer over the last 6 months or so. It's 2013, geez, we ought to have cured this stuff by now.

Its easily the weakest of the first few books...go on with Player of the Game and Use of Weapons then on to Excession for several doses of awesome sf

[Tehol the Only]

3/4 through Academ's Fury... i liked Furies of Calderon but the 2nd book is just so much better. Alera just reached "AWSUM" level for me.

[Stalker]

I've been working my way through Michael Moorcock's Elric stuff, since I hadn't read them before and they are frequently mentioned as important to modern fantasy. Anyway, they are all really quick reads but I've been enjoying them. I'm not really sure if I will keep reading into the rest of the Eternal Champion narrative though.

I also took a break in between to read Look to Windward following the sad news of Iain Banks' death. It wasn't my favorite Culture novel, but it was still a good read. I think that was the only one I hadn't read before, though I still have a copy of The Algaebraist set to go at some point.

[Abyss]

Lavie Tidhar's THE BOOKMAN.
Coming off of FRACTAL PRINCE i wasn't sure this would hold my attention, but it did. Tidhar does a solid steampunk London and i'm liking it so far.