[Malaclypse]

polishgenius, on 11 April 2013 - 10:19 PM, said:

Malaclypse, on 11 April 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Sad, though he is a good-looking man and is clearly homosexual so he might get away with it for a while longer-

I'm sorry, what? The fuck does that have to do with the price of fish?

Quote

The Scar was average imo, and that's being kind, I truly don't understand why people get excited about it - it was moody, certainly but otherwise? not much to speak of.

The Scar is pretty much a how-to on how to construct and pace that kind of novel.


I also don't see the political agenda in The Scar, at all. In Iron Council, I can see the argument, though I think a bigger deal is made of it than is really the case in the book, but The Scar? Nah.

Fair enough, and maybe you're right about the instructional value of The Scar - I found it uninteresting and self-indulgent. My comment on his looks, demeanor and sexuality stem from a night out where he followed Steve on the stage and he was so glib, so comfortable where Steve was not, so obvious in his sexual ambiguity - don't get me wrong, I celebrate these things in principle, but in this place it was offensive as it amounted to upstaging Steve. I spoke to him directly at his 'booth' and for me it was a bit of a 'rockstar' moment because he is, or was, or could be, the speculative fiction rockstar, like Harlan Ellison before him. Anyway, I spoke the truth as it occurred to me, that first books were often the best thing an author could produce and that everything that followed was an attempt to recapture that brilliance. It wasn't that , offensive, lets be honest, but I saw his eyes change. He's used to having his cock sucked by everybody he speaks with and he dismissed me. I've argued with Steve many times and he almost always dismisses my concerns but he never dismissed me as a person. China Mieville thinks too much of himself, a fatal flaw in a writer. I hope he shakes it off because he has an amazing command of the language but he's got to stop jerking off in public, imo

[Traveller]

Briar King, on 11 April 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

Traveller, on 11 April 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

Just started Shogun, bout 20 years after I first read it.

Fucking epic timing on that T. You ever read any of the other Asian Saga books?

No, because after I read Shogun, all I kept hearing was that his others weren't as good.

That is something I will correct now, though. I loved Shogun first time round - I got a second-hand copy from a bookstall for about 50p, and couldn't put it down.

It will be interesting to see what I think this time.

This post has been edited by Traveller: 11 April 2013 - 11:04 PM

[amphibian]

So because China Mieville found Mal to be an aggressive jerk speaking about an authorial trend that may or may not apply to the author in question, his books are thusly not good to Mal?

That makes sense.

I consider The Scar to be one of the finest books written in the English language in the past fifteen years. It is a towering achievement and uses the weirdness of the Bas-Lag setting as a backdrop to obsession and organizational rivalries in a way that is delightful to read.

Iron Council also improved greatly for me once I did a re read years later. The swamp section is possibly Hull Beddict done better than Erickson did it.

[Grief]

While I wouldn't apply it to The Scar, I think some of Mal's criticism is accurate (no idea about Mieville as a person, seemed nice enough when I briefly met him). There are definitely a good few of his books that feel like "Mieville by numbers". Often some interesting concepts, sadly underexplored, or tacked onto/used as a crutch for an unspectacular plot.

Personally I think Perdido Street Station is his best work. For me, the Scar would be just behind it. Looking back though, I would struggle to point at anything it did that PSS didn't already do better (reading PSS first possibly biases me a bit in that way. There are a couple of areas it's definitely better for me, but mostly it just does a lot of the same stuff slightly better). I've not re-read Iron Council but my memory of it (it's ending particularly) isn't very favourable.

Which is another gripe I have with Mieville. Most of his endings range from poor to dire. The end of the Scar is the weakest part of the book imo, and most complaints I've heard about PSS have been ending related too. However great the build up is, a book can lose a lot if it can't be concluded well. It particularly makes his use of ambiguous weirdness feel like a cheap trick to build tension easily.

He can definitely write though, and I'd give any book of his a chance, but he's not on the "rush out and buy" level he was after I read PSS.

As for what I'm actually reading, I've just finished Brighton Rock, which I enjoyed a lot. Graham Greene is sorely under appreciated, or under read at least. Extremely readable, and moves quickly, while maintaining a wonderful sense of inevitability. Would absolutely recommend. It's short too.

[Obdigore]

amphibian, on 12 April 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

So because China Mieville found Mal to be an aggressive jerk speaking about an authorial trend that may or may not apply to the author in question, his books are thusly not good to Mal?

That makes sense.

I consider The Scar to be one of the finest books written in the English language in the past fifteen years. It is a towering achievement and uses the weirdness of the Bas-Lag setting as a backdrop to obsession and organizational rivalries in a way that is delightful to read.

Iron Council also improved greatly for me once I did a re read years later. The swamp section is possibly Hull Beddict done better than Erickson did it.

No no, as far as I can tell Mal dislikes Mieville because Mieville was comfortable in front of an audience where Steve was not, so Mal seems to think that he somehow was purposely making Steve look bad. When Mal confronted Mieville on it, China committed the greatest of sins in Mals eyes, and just didn't give a shit about what Mal was saying.

Meanwhile everyone else thinks Mieville is a good author who has written some great books, and has flaws just like any author. For instance I thought PSS, Scar and Kraken were great books, Iron Council was good but the ending was meh, and I actually couldn't finish Embassytown because I was so bored.

[Grief]

What made you like Kraken so much? Possibly the first time I've seen in mentioned in the same breath as PSS or the Scar.

In particular, what did you think of the ending? Iron council is the one people usually bring up as a bad ending, but I didn't feel like Krakens was much more satisfying.

Just curious as it's one of the ones I'm less keen on, and I've not come across so many people who really rate it.

[Obdigore]

Grief, on 12 April 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

What made you like Kraken so much? Possibly the first time I've seen in mentioned in the same breath as PSS or the Scar.

In particular, what did you think of the ending? Iron council is the one people usually bring up as a bad ending, but I didn't feel like Krakens was much more satisfying.

Just curious as it's one of the ones I'm less keen on, and I've not come across so many people who really rate it.

I couldn't tell you. I thought it was going to be meh-tastic after about 20 pages in, but I just couldn't put it down and ended up staying up way too late reading it. The ending wasn't the best ending, but it was a satisfying conclusion to the book to me.

[Morgoth]

I actually quite enjoyed Railsea, more I'd say than Embasytown, City and the City and Kraken, but then I had just finished Moby Dick and was still so awestruck it might have rubbe off a little on Railsea.

When that is said, I agree that Mieville gets a little lost in his Crazy Idea for whichever book his currently writing, but at the same time I appreciate an author who genuinely tries to make something different.

Jeff Vandermeer does it better, I think, but Mieville is much more prolific in his writing.

This post has been edited by Morgoth: 12 April 2013 - 05:58 AM

[TheRetiredBridgeburner]

Just started The Real Middle Earth by Brian Bates. Someone lent it to me a couple of weeks ago. So far I think he's barking, but the cultures he's writing about are interesting so I'll stick with it for now.

[James Hutton]

Salt-Man Z, on 10 April 2013 - 03:22 PM, said:

James Hutton, on 10 April 2013 - 11:08 AM, said:

I finished Shadow of the Torturer by Gene Wolfe just this morning on the train. I could only glimpse parts of the first layer beneath the story, let alone the ones below that, so I started reading it again then and there. Can recommend this if you like rereadability!

Rereads are even better once you've read the entire Book!

Morgoth, on 10 April 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

Salty is a man of wisdom and class. Listen to his words.

Can't ignore advise like that...! Will start Claw of the Concilliator

[Malaclypse]

Obdigore, on 12 April 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

amphibian, on 12 April 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

So because China Mieville found Mal to be an aggressive jerk speaking about an authorial trend that may or may not apply to the author in question, his books are thusly not good to Mal?

That makes sense.

I consider The Scar to be one of the finest books written in the English language in the past fifteen years. It is a towering achievement and uses the weirdness of the Bas-Lag setting as a backdrop to obsession and organizational rivalries in a way that is delightful to read.

Iron Council also improved greatly for me once I did a re read years later. The swamp section is possibly Hull Beddict done better than Erickson did it.

No no, as far as I can tell Mal dislikes Mieville because Mieville was comfortable in front of an audience where Steve was not, so Mal seems to think that he somehow was purposely making Steve look bad. When Mal confronted Mieville on it, China committed the greatest of sins in Mals eyes, and just didn't give a shit about what Mal was saying.

Meanwhile everyone else thinks Mieville is a good author who has written some great books, and has flaws just like any author. For instance I thought PSS, Scar and Kraken were great books, Iron Council was good but the ending was meh, and I actually couldn't finish Embassytown because I was so bored.

nono, the conversation happened before he spoke to the crowd. I was just being self-effacing regarding the upstaging Steve thing - he's a dick, which is fine with me. I just think he's wasting his talent. I have downloaded one of his recent books and even the comic he's involved in - Dial 'H' - no question the man's an amazing talent.

[amphibian]

I thought City & The City was his worst book - even though it's still pretty good and won some awards. I didn't read King Rat, but I've gotten to everything else.

It also doesn't help that Ian McDonald came out with The Dervish House, which blows away just about everything written in the last three years, at roughly the same time.

[Grief]

amphibian, on 12 April 2013 - 04:53 PM, said:

I thought City & The City was his worst book - even though it's still pretty good and won some awards. I didn't read King Rat, but I've gotten to everything else.

It also doesn't help that Ian McDonald came out with The Dervish House, which blows away just about everything written in the last three years, at roughly the same time.

Definitely agree about The City and The city. The best thing about it is it's length. The writing is as good as you'd expect but the plot is all over the place, it's probably his worst offender for a disappointing treatment of a neat concept, and is also in the running for his poorest end section.

Funnily I actually thought it was decent when it came out, with the exception of the last stretch. Re-reading it I got a distinctly different impression - the first time through just didn't seem that bad because for most of the book I was holding out for it to turn great, which it seemed to have the potential to do and almost be on the verge of doing. And then it just didn't.

[stone monkey]

I loved The City and The City. For me it showed that Mieville actually had control over his authorial voice - his other books that I've read, for the most part, have a fairly similar writing style to each other. But everyone's different I guess.

[Defiance]

I've been juggling books for awhile, starting several but finishing none. For the time being I'm putting Ice and Fire and Malazan down, since I need to wait for the lady to catch up so ky reread keeps pace with her first time through (although honesty I can read either series repeatedly and not get bored). Trying to decide between 11/22/63 and Lord of Chaos right now...not sure I'm ready to jump back into Jordan just yet though. I like his books but I can only stand so much before they start to grate on me.

[Brujah]

Im rereading Gardens of the Moon. I've never really been much for rereading any book, but I felt this series would be an exception, and am actually enjoying it, so far.

The books next up for me are A Memory of Light(#14 and last in WoT series) by Jordan, Cold Days(also #14 in series I believe, Dresden Files) by Butcher, A Wise Man's Fear(second in the Kingkiller Chronicle) by Rothfuss, and the next book in the Black Company series, having read only book number one.

Those are all parts of series I've already began. As far as new series books, I'm very excited to begin Abercrombie's First Law trilogy, with The Blade Itself.

In fact, all of the books I've read in the last 18 months have came at suggestions from this forum, and I'm usually extremely satisfied with each one. I have to admit that I felt Rothfuss's The Name of the Wind seemed like a slow read, and didn't live up to its hype, BUT I still liked it, and have heard it gets better, so looking forward to that.

That's all on the plate for now.

[EmperorMagus]

I tried to read the steel remains. But there were some parts of the book that changed my mind despite the excellent action.
Now I'm reading the Quantum Thief and it's awesome so far.

[Salt-Man Z]

Finished Ex-Patriots last night, and it was just as fun (if not quite as good) as the first.

[Ulrik]

I need recommendation... Rather fantasy, dark, gritty...but not as prince of thorns. It just sucked my enthusiasm. Ive just finished Wise Mans Fear and it was...just acceptable. first book was more interesting for me. Thacks and orry typo - new tablet :/

[Ukjent]

You have read the black company? if not, do it.