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Question regarding timeline in DG

#1 User is offline   Rhand 

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Posted 24 October 2022 - 11:26 AM

Hi all, started rereading Malazan Book of the Fallen after half a dozen years or more hiatus. Loving it (of course).

One thing that bugged me enough to come make a thread here was the timeline within DG.

We have 3 main storylines:

- Chain of Dogs
- Kalam into Malaz
- Fiddler into Raraku

Now, Chain of Dogs lasted for months. Various times throughout the book we read Duiker stating that "this river" or "that city" is still months away. So from Hissar to Aren, that's easily 6 months or more.

However this does not seem to match Kalam's timeline and definitely does not matches Fiddler's timeline.

- Kalam took few weeks to get into Aren. So are we supposed to believe both his trip through Imperial Warren and his boat trip took multiple months? I know the captain mentioned time was running slow on the boat and it seemed only few days had gone by when actually 3 weeks had gone by, based on position of the moon, and that QB confirmed something was slowing down the boat, but afterwards to Falar the boat was speeding up again on "non-existant" tradewinds.
- Fiddler was already in Iskaral Pust's temple when Coltaine just crossed Sekala River. From there it was still 2 months to Vathar Forest and more months to Aren for the Chain of Dogs. So Fiddler spent multiple months in Iskaral's temple and Raraku? Seems very difficult to believe, the story told from Fidd/Mappo's POV certainly does not reflect it.

Has this been addressed somewhere? Am I missing something?
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Posted 24 October 2022 - 02:18 PM

View PostRhand, on 24 October 2022 - 11:26 AM, said:

Hi all, started rereading Malazan Book of the Fallen after half a dozen years or more hiatus. Loving it (of course).

One thing that bugged me enough to come make a thread here was the timeline within DG.

We have 3 main storylines:

- Chain of Dogs
- Kalam into Malaz
- Fiddler into Raraku

Now, Chain of Dogs lasted for months. Various times throughout the book we read Duiker stating that "this river" or "that city" is still months away. So from Hissar to Aren, that's easily 6 months or more.

However this does not seem to match Kalam's timeline and definitely does not matches Fiddler's timeline.

- Kalam took few weeks to get into Aren. So are we supposed to believe both his trip through Imperial Warren and his boat trip took multiple months? I know the captain mentioned time was running slow on the boat and it seemed only few days had gone by when actually 3 weeks had gone by, based on position of the moon, and that QB confirmed something was slowing down the boat, but afterwards to Falar the boat was speeding up again on "non-existant" tradewinds.
- Fiddler was already in Iskaral Pust's temple when Coltaine just crossed Sekala River. From there it was still 2 months to Vathar Forest and more months to Aren for the Chain of Dogs. So Fiddler spent multiple months in Iskaral's temple and Raraku? Seems very difficult to believe, the story told from Fidd/Mappo's POV certainly does not reflect it.

Has this been addressed somewhere? Am I missing something?


The answer is warrens.
Time passes differently in the warrens, and everyone ...yes, everyone, the Chain, Kalam, Fid & co, Icarium & Mappo, Lostara & Pearl... in the book passes through them at various points, most more than once.
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#3 User is offline   Rhand 

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Posted 24 October 2022 - 04:26 PM

View PostAbyss, on 24 October 2022 - 02:18 PM, said:

View PostRhand, on 24 October 2022 - 11:26 AM, said:

Hi all, started rereading Malazan Book of the Fallen after half a dozen years or more hiatus. Loving it (of course).

One thing that bugged me enough to come make a thread here was the timeline within DG.

We have 3 main storylines:

- Chain of Dogs
- Kalam into Malaz
- Fiddler into Raraku

Now, Chain of Dogs lasted for months. Various times throughout the book we read Duiker stating that "this river" or "that city" is still months away. So from Hissar to Aren, that's easily 6 months or more.

However this does not seem to match Kalam's timeline and definitely does not matches Fiddler's timeline.

- Kalam took few weeks to get into Aren. So are we supposed to believe both his trip through Imperial Warren and his boat trip took multiple months? I know the captain mentioned time was running slow on the boat and it seemed only few days had gone by when actually 3 weeks had gone by, based on position of the moon, and that QB confirmed something was slowing down the boat, but afterwards to Falar the boat was speeding up again on "non-existant" tradewinds.
- Fiddler was already in Iskaral Pust's temple when Coltaine just crossed Sekala River. From there it was still 2 months to Vathar Forest and more months to Aren for the Chain of Dogs. So Fiddler spent multiple months in Iskaral's temple and Raraku? Seems very difficult to believe, the story told from Fidd/Mappo's POV certainly does not reflect it.

Has this been addressed somewhere? Am I missing something?


The answer is warrens.
Time passes differently in the warrens, and everyone ...yes, everyone, the Chain, Kalam, Fid & co, Icarium & Mappo, Lostara & Pearl... in the book passes through them at various points, most more than once.


Is that speculation or has that been confirmed anywhere, either in lore or in interview by SE? Especially that the Chain passed through warrens, seems strange.
It seems a valid answer why Fidd and the club spent seemingly such a long time in the Waste, then again Kalam was there as well earlier in the book and time did not seem so inconsistent at the time.

I also realise now that Minala went on a different boat from Aren to Malaz, but somehow ended up the same day in the harbour despite them not being afflicted by the problems Kalam experienced on the Ragstopper. I mean the only reason that happened was because of the gold and because of Pearl vs Kalam. it remains confusing.
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Posted 24 October 2022 - 05:41 PM

View PostRhand, on 24 October 2022 - 04:26 PM, said:

...

Is that speculation or has that been confirmed anywhere, either in lore or in interview by SE? Especially that the Chain passed through warrens, seems strange.
It seems a valid answer why Fidd and the club spent seemingly such a long time in the Waste, then again Kalam was there as well earlier in the book and time did not seem so inconsistent at the time.

I also realise now that Minala went on a different boat from Aren to Malaz, but somehow ended up the same day in the harbour despite them not being afflicted by the problems Kalam experienced on the Ragstopper. I mean the only reason that happened was because of the gold and because of Pearl vs Kalam. it remains confusing.


SE has said this tho i'm afraid i can't direct you to where. It's not a perfect answer if you spend too much time thinking about it.
The Chain is the hardest part but Raraku doesn't have hard borders, 7C is a magical place, and at various points in the narrative there are references to weirdness around the Chain. You'll remember the whole thing w Coltaine being on the brink of ascension - that level of faith/belief can affect other things. Ultimately everyone else in the series definitely travels through warrens so even if you don't accept that for the Chain it allows the rest of the timelines to more or less (or less or more) sync up.
Minala's ship was travelling in the wake of Kalam's and could have been affected, or else there was a mage on board who did something, or Shadowthrone (or someone else) was messing about.
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#5 User is offline   Rhand 

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Posted 25 October 2022 - 10:40 AM

Yeah, not a very satisfactory answer from Erikson for me but guess I'll have to accept it. Just like Minala deus ex machina'ing Kalam in Malaz City when he's about to get killed by the Claw.

Minor annoyances about an otherwise amazing book. Nothing is perfect after all.
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Posted 25 October 2022 - 02:23 PM

If it helps, some of the points you're wondering about are explained/developed in later books.
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