[Jorram]

This was the trend by the end of GOTM, however in later books the power level of the Andii seems to be falling down with every new revelation. This quote is not saying much either, given that by MT's prologue one would never attribute to Gothos any chance of having "praised the gods of the time".

Also, I'm not sure why would you, Wrait, assume that the Liosan are weaker than back then at the time of their creation. Edur, okay, possible the Andii themselves are also weaker and scattered, however my view is that the Liosan never suffered anything that would weaken them. In fact, we know too little about them. The only thing of interest that can be mentioned is that they obviously know Icarium.

[Set'alahd Crool]

@Wraith
That doesn't mean mean Gothos was scared of them, just that he recognised the fear they caused....And he was thankful there were so few of them because the few there were made what he thought was a big mess. He stood there with Andii and Edur in their thousands and wove his ritual, unconcerned with the fact that Ruin chose not to kill him, or that Scabby would've killed him(tried, at least), had he seen him. I'm sure Gothos knew what he was at, so that indicates a self confidence that even dragons couldn't shake.

[Abyss]

vaiski said:

Weirdish thing here is that in MoI, Rake saw fitting a full unveiling of all 1100 Andii, and they were 'only' going against a Jaghut and a Matron. Plus few odd sorcerers and whatnot. Not underestimating Jaghut and Matron, but it still seems bit over the top..

I'm fairly certain Rake knew they were up against the Chained God, albeit indirectly, and he's no lightweight.

As for Gothos, first let's keep in mind these documents were ages old and possibly translations, second he could have been referring to the draconean ascendants amongst them, and third, it IS GotM, after all.

- Abyss, middleweight.

[Tiger_sword]

The loison have been locked away from the malazan world for thousands of years.

Where are they now? what world are they in? and do they actually have any interest in what goes on in the malazan world.

[Coldnight]

I don't know why some of you value Liosan so high. The four Liosan from HoC are rather dumb. Besides, it's clearly stated that Liosan have no sorcerers but only priests who has to kneel down and ask for power. Now when Osserec is gonne and L'orik's demon killed.... There's a candidate the Quenn of Dreams has but I haven't got any ideas who might that be. Anyway, Liosan right now are rather weak. I'm excluding L'oric for the reason being he's no statistical Liosan.

[Morgoth]

The Liosan survived a direct hit of the strongest explosive the Malazan army has in its arsenal, suffering little but superficial wounds. I'd say that proves them to be fearsome indeed..

The Eleint killed the FA because the Eleint can fly why the Fa cannot, it is as simple as that. Ranking them by power alone is... problematic as an FA could kill tribes of Imass while a single dragon could roast it from the air. If the Dragon was wing clipped however, the FA could probably kill it. Also, the FA must have a strong resistance towards magic or they would not have fared well against neither the Jhagut or the Imass bonecasters,,

My ranking would be like this:

Race:
Eleint
FA
KC
Andii/Liosan
Imass (they defeated the Jhagut after all)
Jhagut

Individuals:
FA - Calm is probably the most powerful being we've seen so far
KC - A matron is no.. lightweight
Jhagut - A tyrant was obviously more than a match for five Eleint
Eleint - Soletaken versions of a race seem to be more powerful than the originals, thus it is only logical to assume that a true Eleint is weaker than is soletaken bretheren (read: Rake, Korlat etc)
Imass
Andii/Liosan - Their strenght lies in their ability to join power. At least it is thus for the Andii, I only assume the Liosan are the same.

[Morgoth]

Hardly. The Jhagut did not destroy the KC, the Tiste and the short tails did. And the Andii and Edur destroyed the last remnants of the KC, not the KC in their prime. The Jhagut were just the last nail in the coffin.

I'm going to bed now, so the rest will be answerd when next I have the time

[Jorram]

Yeah, the KCCM were wiped out by their own war with the short-tails. Jaghut did not destroy anyone as a race.

Neither Ruin, nor Scabandari destroyed a Matron by themselves. In that battle there were, AFAIR, all in all three Matrons, and they were fought over by a lot of Andii, Edur and Wyvals. Maybe Ruin posed a final blow to some of the Matrons, but that's all.

The Soletaken Dragons are no stronger than the true ones. The only true Eleint we have seen is Silanah and she was the main reason Raest would almost fail in their fight. Maybe the Draconean Ascendants are stronger than your general Eleint (not that Eleint are so many to use this word ), however this is not important for the species ranking.

[Abyss]

Altho it's worth pointing out that the undead ones were a handful, and the living ones were supposedly worse.

I imagine offing their respective matrons may weaken them somewhat.

- Abyss, was undead once but got better.