[Ailesbury]

I am in the middle of GotM and trying to figure out who the villains are here. So, what is the relationship between Anomander Rake and Shadowthrone?

[Aptorian]

They're two very powerful players in a game of empires and gods. As for who the villains are, that's a matter of perspective isn't it?

[nacht]

Welcome to GotM, the gateway to a new world of writing. I remember giving up on it, then finishing it much later (after reading a famous series in between) and then being shell shocked after I finished it.

[Gorefest]

Who are the villains in any war? Is it the losing side? Is it the side that you are not on? Perspective and empathy are key, both in the real world and in the Malazan universe.

More will be revealed about Rake and Shadowthrone as you read on. For now, all you need to know is that Rake is the leader of a group of Tiste Andii (for convenience sake you could think of them as a race of high elves, although that is a huge oversimplification) who has allied himself with forces opposing the Malazan empire; and Shadowthrone is a shady character who also holds a big grudge against the empire (or at least against the Empress, Lasseen).

[Aptorian]

I'd argue there are a few true villains in this book.

Lady Simtal and Turban Orr are not sympathetic people. Their actions can solely be attributed to greed and avarice.

There's also a certain dude who becomes the centre of attention towards the end of the book, no spoilers for OP, that is pretty much Chaotic Evil.

Hairlock I think is on the cusp of becoming a real villain as he descends into madness.

[Alberto_Magnus]

Incredible Aptorian, on 12 November 2020 - 01:06 PM, said:

I'd argue there are a few true villains in this book.

Lady Simtal and Turban Orr are not sympathetic people. Their actions can solely be attributed to greed and avarice.

There's also a certain dude who becomes the centre of attention towards the end of the book, no spoilers for OP, that is pretty much Chaotic Evil.

Hairlock I think is on the cusp of becoming a real villain as he descends into madness.

I agree.

Even if there are no major black and whites in GotM, there are characters you tend to feel have a kind of inner morality and others who do not.
Shadowthrone and Rake both surprise you.

[edited cause of spoilers]

Hairlock is just a piece of evil and malice, strolling through the warrens of Chaos didn't improve him.

This post has been edited by Alberto_Magnus: 12 November 2020 - 05:42 PM

[Gorefest]

Please try and refrain from giving spoilers, theOP clearly hasnt read that far yet.

[Alberto_Magnus]

Gorefest, on 12 November 2020 - 05:35 PM, said:

Please try and refrain from giving spoilers, theOP clearly hasnt read that far yet.

Well I did so just because the header to each book topic says "Discussion for fans who have read the first book, in A Tale of the Malazan book of the Fallen."

but yes, indeed the author said he's in the middle of the book, ok I'll edit my previous answer.

This post has been edited by Alberto_Magnus: 12 November 2020 - 05:41 PM

[Ailesbury]

Thanks for all the feedback. As I read more and more, I am finding that there might not be any clear-cut villains. The whole idea of good and bad seems relative in this first book.

[Ailesbury]

excerpt from Gardens of the Moon, p.467

"Some things went beyond a single man's life, and maybe justice existed outside the minds of humanity, beyond even the hungry eyes of gods and goddesses, a thing shining and pure and final. Some philosophers he'd [Paran] read during his schooling in the Malazan capital, Unta, had asserted what seemed to him then an absurd position. Morality was not relative, they claimed, nor even existing solely in the realm of the human condition. No, they proclaimed morality as an imperative of all life, a natural law that was neither the brutal acts of beasts nor the lofty ambitions of humanity, but something other, something unassailable."