[elaural]

I can't figure out where that t'lan imass came from or who he is,

Spoiler

at the end of the book, who doesn't care about the seguleh but just wants to kill the tyrant. Then he's all excited to fight the 6th and gives some back story.

Has he come up before? Should I have recognized him?

[Aptorian]

I don't remember the events of OST but could it be that Imass from Toll the Hounds with the broken legs? The one Harlo meets?

[Abyss]

That's the dude.

[elaural]

Awesome thanks

[Rhand]

Except that dude was supposed to have been swallowed by the Azath.

Chapter 23:
Antsy and Barathol turned. And there, in the yard, there was a fresh mound of raw earth, steaming. Vines were visibly snaking over it. 'Gods below,' the Falari whispered, making a warding gesture with one hand.

'A T'lan Imass with odd legs,' said Raest. 'It seemed to harbour some dislike towards me.' The Jaghut paused. 'I can't imagine why.'

Antsy grunted. 'It should've stayed on the path.'

This post has been edited by Rhand: 06 February 2023 - 10:54 AM

[Abyss]

Rhand, on 06 February 2023 - 10:54 AM, said:

Except that dude was supposed to have been swallowed by the Azath.

Chapter 23:
Antsy and Barathol turned. And there, in the yard, there was a fresh mound of raw earth, steaming. Vines were visibly snaking over it. 'Gods below,' the Falari whispered, making a warding gesture with one hand.

'A T'lan Imass with odd legs,' said Raest. 'It seemed to harbour some dislike towards me.' The Jaghut paused. 'I can't imagine why.'

Antsy grunted. 'It should've stayed on the path.'

He was.
Then he shows up again chatting w Raest in OST and walks out to go after the Tyrant, thinking he's a Jaghut.

[Rhand]

Abyss, on 06 February 2023 - 07:22 PM, said:

Rhand, on 06 February 2023 - 10:54 AM, said:

Except that dude was supposed to have been swallowed by the Azath.

Chapter 23:
Antsy and Barathol turned. And there, in the yard, there was a fresh mound of raw earth, steaming. Vines were visibly snaking over it. 'Gods below,' the Falari whispered, making a warding gesture with one hand.

'A T'lan Imass with odd legs,' said Raest. 'It seemed to harbour some dislike towards me.' The Jaghut paused. 'I can't imagine why.'

Antsy grunted. 'It should've stayed on the path.'

He was.
Then he shows up again chatting w Raest in OST and walks out to go after the Tyrant, thinking he's a Jaghut.

I know, my point was though, that he was swallowed by the Azath garden. Since when are fiends able to escape and/or get released by the Azath unless the House dies? Eternal imprisonment and such, right? Even Silchas could not escape the Azath.

[HoosierDaddy]

Rhand, on 07 February 2023 - 02:35 PM, said:

Abyss, on 06 February 2023 - 07:22 PM, said:

Rhand, on 06 February 2023 - 10:54 AM, said:

Except that dude was supposed to have been swallowed by the Azath.

Chapter 23:
Antsy and Barathol turned. And there, in the yard, there was a fresh mound of raw earth, steaming. Vines were visibly snaking over it. 'Gods below,' the Falari whispered, making a warding gesture with one hand.

'A T'lan Imass with odd legs,' said Raest. 'It seemed to harbour some dislike towards me.' The Jaghut paused. 'I can't imagine why.'

Antsy grunted. 'It should've stayed on the path.'

He was.
Then he shows up again chatting w Raest in OST and walks out to go after the Tyrant, thinking he's a Jaghut.

I know, my point was though, that he was swallowed by the Azath garden. Since when are fiends able to escape and/or get released by the Azath unless the House dies? Eternal imprisonment and such, right? Even Silchas could not escape the Azath.

Was he swallowed or did he walk in ala Ganoes and Rallick Nom?

[Rhand]

HoosierDaddy, on 07 February 2023 - 03:04 PM, said:

Rhand, on 07 February 2023 - 02:35 PM, said:

Abyss, on 06 February 2023 - 07:22 PM, said:

Rhand, on 06 February 2023 - 10:54 AM, said:

Except that dude was supposed to have been swallowed by the Azath.

Chapter 23:
Antsy and Barathol turned. And there, in the yard, there was a fresh mound of raw earth, steaming. Vines were visibly snaking over it. 'Gods below,' the Falari whispered, making a warding gesture with one hand.

'A T'lan Imass with odd legs,' said Raest. 'It seemed to harbour some dislike towards me.' The Jaghut paused. 'I can't imagine why.'

Antsy grunted. 'It should've stayed on the path.'

He was.
Then he shows up again chatting w Raest in OST and walks out to go after the Tyrant, thinking he's a Jaghut.

I know, my point was though, that he was swallowed by the Azath garden. Since when are fiends able to escape and/or get released by the Azath unless the House dies? Eternal imprisonment and such, right? Even Silchas could not escape the Azath.

Was he swallowed or did he walk in ala Ganoes and Rallick Nom?

SE literally wrote that the Imass was buried in the yard's fresh earth, vines snaking over it because it did not stay on the path.

But yeah, maybe warrens or something...

[HoosierDaddy]

Rhand, on 07 February 2023 - 03:21 PM, said:

HoosierDaddy, on 07 February 2023 - 03:04 PM, said:

Rhand, on 07 February 2023 - 02:35 PM, said:

Abyss, on 06 February 2023 - 07:22 PM, said:

Rhand, on 06 February 2023 - 10:54 AM, said:

Except that dude was supposed to have been swallowed by the Azath.

Chapter 23:
Antsy and Barathol turned. And there, in the yard, there was a fresh mound of raw earth, steaming. Vines were visibly snaking over it. 'Gods below,' the Falari whispered, making a warding gesture with one hand.

'A T'lan Imass with odd legs,' said Raest. 'It seemed to harbour some dislike towards me.' The Jaghut paused. 'I can't imagine why.'

Antsy grunted. 'It should've stayed on the path.'

He was.
Then he shows up again chatting w Raest in OST and walks out to go after the Tyrant, thinking he's a Jaghut.

I know, my point was though, that he was swallowed by the Azath garden. Since when are fiends able to escape and/or get released by the Azath unless the House dies? Eternal imprisonment and such, right? Even Silchas could not escape the Azath.

Was he swallowed or did he walk in ala Ganoes and Rallick Nom?

SE literally wrote that the Imass was buried in the yard's fresh earth, vines snaking over it because it did not stay on the path.

But yeah, maybe warrens or something...

Maybe Kruppe wasn't sure what happened to him in his telling of the tale and so came up with a plausible ending that was later shown to be not the case by a different storyteller? Kruppe is not omnipotent? Problem solved, lol!

[Abyss]

The next time we see him he's sitting in the Azath chatting w Raest. I figured Raest asked the Azath nicely to let him out. There is no reason at all why that doesn't explain everything.

[Rhand]

Abyss, on 07 February 2023 - 05:47 PM, said:

The next time we see him he's sitting in the Azath chatting w Raest. I figured Raest asked the Azath nicely to let him out. There is no reason at all why that doesn't explain everything.

Of course, but I don't think readers should make up stuff to explain things that go against the lore that we have been exposed to for the previous +/- 10 books. The author should have spent some time on that, there's a lot of dead wood in the books anyway to make way for a bit of exposition/explanation.

And it's not the first time that ICE just makes simple mistakes, disregarding things that happened in the main series.

Personally, I just think ICE done goofed. Again.

[worry]

Authors are allowed to make stuff up but readers aren't? That's unfair!

[Abyss]

Rhand, on 07 February 2023 - 08:37 PM, said:

Abyss, on 07 February 2023 - 05:47 PM, said:

The next time we see him he's sitting in the Azath chatting w Raest. I figured Raest asked the Azath nicely to let him out. There is no reason at all why that doesn't explain everything.

Of course, but I don't think readers should make up stuff to explain things that go against the lore that we have been exposed to for the previous +/- 10 books. The author should have spent some time on that, there's a lot of dead wood in the books anyway to make way for a bit of exposition/explanation.

And it's not the first time that ICE just makes simple mistakes, disregarding things that happened in the main series.

Personally, I just think ICE done goofed. Again.

AH, but in stating as fact that no one is ever released from an Azath ever, maybe you're the one making stuff up and ignoring the lore?
Deadhouse has a resident. Leth House didn't. Deadhouse is shiny and new. Leth house was ancient and near dead and full up. Leth House was within the influence of an old Jaghut ritual that froze the warrens. Deadhouse had a resident Jaghut who made that ritual way back when. You're assuming the same rules apply when we have seen that not all Azath Houses are identical. Tremolor had set up shop in its own pocket warren that was nothing like Deadhouse or Leth House.


An event happened 'offscreen'. It's obvious from the events we do see. If a reader needs every single event to play out in front of them in graphic detail this is not a series for them. Sure, there are goofs (Harllo is HOW OLD???), but this isn't one of them.

[Rhand]

Abyss, on 07 February 2023 - 11:31 PM, said:

Rhand, on 07 February 2023 - 08:37 PM, said:

Abyss, on 07 February 2023 - 05:47 PM, said:

The next time we see him he's sitting in the Azath chatting w Raest. I figured Raest asked the Azath nicely to let him out. There is no reason at all why that doesn't explain everything.

Of course, but I don't think readers should make up stuff to explain things that go against the lore that we have been exposed to for the previous +/- 10 books. The author should have spent some time on that, there's a lot of dead wood in the books anyway to make way for a bit of exposition/explanation.

And it's not the first time that ICE just makes simple mistakes, disregarding things that happened in the main series.

Personally, I just think ICE done goofed. Again.

AH, but in stating as fact that no one is ever released from an Azath ever, maybe you're the one making stuff up and ignoring the lore?
Deadhouse has a resident. Leth House didn't. Deadhouse is shiny and new. Leth house was ancient and near dead and full up. Leth House was within the influence of an old Jaghut ritual that froze the warrens. Deadhouse had a resident Jaghut who made that ritual way back when. You're assuming the same rules apply when we have seen that not all Azath Houses are identical. Tremolor had set up shop in its own pocket warren that was nothing like Deadhouse or Leth House.


An event happened 'offscreen'. It's obvious from the events we do see. If a reader needs every single event to play out in front of them in graphic detail this is not a series for them. Sure, there are goofs (Harllo is HOW OLD???), but this isn't one of them.

The Azath houses are there to imprison (dangerous) entities for eternity (amongst other activities). That has been implied, if not stated, by various extremely powerful and knowledgeable ascendants and gods. At no point in the lore has any of those characters (some who have lived for nigh on half a million years) implied that there is precedent for such (dangerous) entities to be released upon the request of the resident. To, now, without any explanation whatsoever, simply accept it as fact, is something I just cannot do. This is not an offscreen event, because it is not mentioned at all. It's a non-event.
For me, the Azath houses are minor but important. You don't just go messing around with them (or any other lore for that matter) without dropping a hint here or there.

I don't have problems with offscreen events as you seem to imply, I don't need every single event to play out in from of me in graphic details as you seem to imply. Some of the best Fantasy out there (and indeed my favourite series) applies similar tactics to put the reader on the wrong foot (is that an English expression or just a literal translation from my native language, I dont know), to make everyone guessing, etc (Wot with Asmodean to give just one example). But at least hints are dropped, things are mentioned. Nothing of the sorts here.

On top of that I just don't have a good opinion about ICE as a writer. I'm only reading his books to have more exposure to the Malazan world, because personally speaking his writing is average at best. And I also see him make smaller mistakes with regards to the lore here and there in RotCG, SW and now O,S,T. Not just me, the forums are filled with threads about inconsistencies, contradictions, etc.

Anyway, let's agree to disagree here. There are no facts so it's just our own assumptions that come into play here. You're fine with this event, I'm not. Case closed.

Edit: Also the argument about Leth house being old and not having a resident, is not really relevant imo as those are statements based on MT. Silchas was imprisoned for hundreds of millennia, at that time the Azath in what would become Letheras was not ancient and near dead.

This post has been edited by Rhand: 08 February 2023 - 07:38 AM