[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Mezla PigDog, on 11 May 2021 - 08:49 PM, said:

As well as rich nations hogging doses, isn't a big bottle neck in the manufacturing supply chain? I read that the large bags they ferment the cells in are in short supply and now on a 12 week lead time compared to previously 4 weeks or something. And I guess there is not much point manufacturing in smaller batches if you can get smaller bags because it's better to manufacture smaller numbers of huge batches for logistical reasons. There must be issues with other components or purifying stuff. The supply chain must be massive and it will all need to be cGMP certified which means you can't get any old giant bag....

'The first shortage is in sterile, single-use plastic bags which sit inside the metal reactor vessels [...] Several suppliers of these plastic liners are ramping up production so it’s anticipated this shortage won’t last too long. [It's basically just a large sterile plastic bag? Can't certifications for something that simple be sped up for an emergency like this?]

[...]

The main bottleneck right now is the supply of some of the lipids making the nanoparticles that protect the mRNA and deliver it into our cells.

One lipid in particular, a so-called “cationic lipid”[...] Several chemical synthesis steps are required to make these cationic lipids, and prior to COVID only a handful of manufacturers worldwide were making these, and only on a fairly small scale.

Upscaling this production of cationic lipids has been even harder than setting up the mRNA production.

[...] in December 2020 [...] Trump invoked the Defense Production Act to assist Pfizer in accessing more lipids.

[...] In most cases, demand has outstripped supply. In some cases, some countries or companies have been stockpiling some of these components. “Operation Warp Speed”, initiated by the Trump administration to speed up COVID vaccine development, used its financial clout throughout 2020 to buy up and secure many vaccine components including vials and lipids.'

https://theconversat...mponents-159143

So it seems like it's not literally 'raw materials' in the sense of rare natural resources or anything like that, but producing things from available materials, with the small number of producers being the main limiting factor.

[Macros]

FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCCKKKKK


PARSE THIS SHIT INOT A RATIONAL PARAGRAPH



FUCK

[Macros]

FUCK

AGAIN

FUCK


OH HURRY UP AND SORT THIS OUT ABYSS


IM DRUNK


FUCK YOU YOU CATWIERDO.

THESE POSTS HAVE POISSED EVERYONE3 OFF FOR FUCKING MOLNTHSD

[Macros]

BLaraegf.

AND ERIKSPON IS OVERATED

[Macros]

AH FUCJK WORK SOON

[Macros]

BED

[Cyphon]

This feels like a flashback to old times.

[Maark Abbott]

Oh, the Irishman just discovered whiskey.

[Mezla PigDog]

Cyphon, on 12 May 2021 - 06:38 AM, said:

This feels like a flashback to old times.

Could the world be getting back to normal finally?

[Cyphon]

Nature is healing, Macros is drunk.

[Gorefest]

Yeah, so absolutely no point targeting the patents if you don't have a handle on the materials side.

[Edit] Or is that not what Macros meant?

This post has been edited by Gorefest: 12 May 2021 - 11:19 AM

[Macros]

Oh double oh my.

I definitely do not recall

[Macros]

I have no idea what Macros meant.
Macros had several drinks last night, Tuesday night poker nights woohoo!

[Slow Ben]

Classic.


Sore arm and shoulder was my only reaction to the 2nd Moderna. All good so far.

[QuickTidal]

Macros, on 12 May 2021 - 11:45 AM, said:

I have no idea what Macros meant.
Macros had several drinks last night, Tuesday night poker nights woohoo!

Drunk Mac is the most amusing because he leaves us all little puzzles to solve what he's talking about!

[Azath Vitr (D'ivers]

Gorefest, on 12 May 2021 - 11:18 AM, said:

Yeah, so absolutely no point targeting the patents if you don't have a handle on the materials side.

So the bags are just plastic bags of a particular size that have been sterilized... but new manufacturers would have to be 'certified' which takes a long time? And existing manufacturers are unable to increase production quickly?

From some cursory research, the other main bottleneck right now---the lipids---seem to be primarily about 1. producing them from available materials and 2. the US hoarding supplies of them.

Or is this mistaken? I do appreciate the expertise of people here in this or related industries. I'd suppose I should mention I have invested about 0.02% of my portfolio in Chinese biotech, so I do stand to gain a little from sharing mRNA technology, though I don't think it's clouding my attempts at objectivity.

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 12 May 2021 - 03:04 PM

[QuickTidal]

Vaccines beginning to kick in with over 50% of the population of Ontario with at least a first dose in them, cases (daily and 7-day average) are starting to crater. My gods, this is the most optimistic I've felt in a long time. If this continues, we will get our summer back and finally put COVID in the rear view.

That said, they paused AZ in Ontario...partially due to the "VIPPT" blood clot thing, and probably more that our supply for Pfizer and Moderna is insane and AZ is lacking anyways.

So considering I had AZ as a first shot, it sounds like (based on the eventual results of the studies in the UK of mixing and matching with mRNA vaccines) my second dose (or perhaps a first dose of an mRNA regimen) will be Pfizer instead. So maybe superpowers from Vaccine mixing?

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 12 May 2021 - 03:10 PM

[Macros]

Numbers plummeting here too. But not in southern Ireland where the rollout is much slower.

Hey anti vaxxers, it's almost

Almost as if something is causing the case numbers to drop.

It must be the beer gardens reopening

[Mezla PigDog]

Azath Vitr (D, on 12 May 2021 - 03:04 PM, said:

Gorefest, on 12 May 2021 - 11:18 AM, said:

Yeah, so absolutely no point targeting the patents if you don't have a handle on the materials side.

So the bags are just plastic bags of a particular size that have been sterilized... but new manufacturers would have to be 'certified' which takes a long time? And existing manufacturers are unable to increase production quickly?

From some cursory research, the other main bottleneck right now---the lipids---seem to be primarily about 1. producing them from available materials and 2. the US hoarding supplies of them.

Or is this mistaken? I do appreciate the expertise of people here in this or related industries. I'd suppose I should mention I have invested about 0.02% of my portfolio in Chinese biotech, so I do stand to gain a little from sharing mRNA technology, though I don't think it's clouding my attempts at objectivity.

I don't know about lipid manufacture and I don't really know about cGMP certification. I do know about the equivalent for high risk medical devices which is slightly less stringent than for pharmaceutical manufacturing but based on the same principles. You can't just turn this stuff on. It's complex and rigorous and for very good reasons. In our sector we're taking all the short cuts we can to get around the pandemic and get appropriate things on the market fast but there's only so much you can cut before you aren't safe anymore.

High turnover production lines take time and money to be efficient and demonstrably safe. I have to say I'm surprised we aren't running low on needles for delivering vaccines but they were already high volume "simple" products in comparison - I've been in a factory manufacturing them and turnover is fast. The supply chain must be stretched thin though. People in my industry are talking about shortages of basic chemicals or processed raw materials for all sorts of medical tests now because of pandemic workforce effects in South Africa and India. Anywhere there is a skilled cheap labour force provides the basis for manufacturing the raw materials for complex systems the world over.

[amphibian]

If the patent is released, then an entity that can only make a tiny batch of doses can do it. That can staff a small hospital or clinic.

The industrial stuff is where the biggest benefits are incurred, but simply getting some front line staff vaccinated in places like Nepal where much of my family still is makes a huge difference.

People are dying so fast in South Asia right now. Any little bit that can save a life or prevent someone from incurring lifelong medical consequences is something I want done. I've been wanting this all along for everyone on the planet.

This post has been edited by amphibian: 13 May 2021 - 12:56 AM