Malazan Empire: TI4 Game 4C - Chat Thread - Malazan Empire

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TI4 Game 4C - Chat Thread

#2621 User is offline   Khellendros 

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 11:23 AM

View PostTattersail_, on 05 February 2020 - 10:48 AM, said:

With the chance of scoring the 2 VP spend 16 influence on the cards, Jazz would have 100% accepted me move out of A/F and 4 TG's. He was focused on Wellon and Tar'mann for strategic purposes. Do any of you think he would be doing what Tapper would be doing? I planned for one neighbour and how I thought the game was going. Fuck it, i'm just going to pass. Pissed off.


If it's any consolation Tatts, I'm pretty sure that this is the round where my victory hopes end as well. Funny, this will be the first round in which I score no points, and that's probably enough to take me out of the running. It's been a tight game.

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 05 February 2020 - 11:23 AM

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#2622 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 12:34 PM

I think it's all going to depend on the PO that comes out next round. D'rek and Toaster are probably in the best positions for sneaking a win via imperial or first to finish depending on what the PO is, but it really depends on the next PO as everyone is in a position to score different ones, the current two aren't easy to get so we might get another round in which case you'll be right in the mix.
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#2623 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 01:47 PM

I don't think anyone will be capable of winning by end of next round, so we're looking at at least 2 more rounds. A lot can happen in that time, I'd say everyone other than Nom/Tatts/Tapper are still potentially in the running, and even they still have a shot if homeworlds are taken to stop victories.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#2624 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 06:11 PM

What are we playing to again? 12 points? I'd have thought that was within your reach with another imperial pick depending on objectives available. Maybe I'm overestimating you :p
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#2625 User is offline   ToasTer86 

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 09:18 PM

12 I thought, useless action from me to stall :-)
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#2626 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 05 February 2020 - 09:54 PM

View PostImperial Historian, on 05 February 2020 - 06:11 PM, said:

What are we playing to again? 12 points? I'd have thought that was within your reach with another imperial pick depending on objectives available. Maybe I'm overestimating you :p


I'm at 7 VP now, after already playing IMPERIAL this round, so that would only be feasible if I can get yet another PO in this round's status phase, which looks night-impossible to me. Plus I would need to also score my SO, which I know is impossible but of course you don't know that. Then and only then would I be able to win with IMPERIAL next round, assuming Tatts lets me take that card, I still hold MR, and there's another PO I can qualify for when I play it. Otherwise it's at least going to the next status round, and I think probably even into partway through the round after as most people have used up all their banked resources - I think it'll be hard for anyone to score to score a PO this round and next, unless it's the tech one.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#2627 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 01:59 AM

View Posttwelve, on 31 January 2020 - 03:31 PM, said:

Look if I've fucked up and messed things up with you I apologize. To hopefully smooth things over then I'll offer you my ceasefire for the end of any hostilities between us for the rest of the round. Will you accept?


Whelp, I guess that didn't happen. Does that mean hostilities are still not over? Guess I better pre-empt your attack of Bereg/Lirta then, no?

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#2628 User is offline   twelve 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 02:07 AM

View PostD, on 06 February 2020 - 01:59 AM, said:

View Posttwelve, on 31 January 2020 - 03:31 PM, said:

Look if I've fucked up and messed things up with you I apologize. To hopefully smooth things over then I'll offer you my ceasefire for the end of any hostilities between us for the rest of the round. Will you accept?


Whelp, I guess that didn't happen. Does that mean hostilities are still not over? Guess I better pre-empt your attack of Bereg/Lirta then, no?

I was hoping you wouldnt attack me but figured you would. That was why I was stalling so I would know how to finish my round.
I don't know what I'm doing but it sounds good.
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#2629 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 02:29 AM

View Posttwelve, on 06 February 2020 - 02:07 AM, said:

View PostD, on 06 February 2020 - 01:59 AM, said:

View Posttwelve, on 31 January 2020 - 03:31 PM, said:

Look if I've fucked up and messed things up with you I apologize. To hopefully smooth things over then I'll offer you my ceasefire for the end of any hostilities between us for the rest of the round. Will you accept?


Whelp, I guess that didn't happen. Does that mean hostilities are still not over? Guess I better pre-empt your attack of Bereg/Lirta then, no?

I was hoping you wouldnt attack me but figured you would. That was why I was stalling so I would know how to finish my round.


If I had your ceasfire I wouldn't have. The problem for me was all my ships are scattered around, so easy for you to pick them off in bits with your soon-to-be-logistic'd fleet.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#2630 User is offline   twelve 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:13 AM

View PostD, on 06 February 2020 - 02:29 AM, said:

View Posttwelve, on 06 February 2020 - 02:07 AM, said:

View PostD, on 06 February 2020 - 01:59 AM, said:

View Posttwelve, on 31 January 2020 - 03:31 PM, said:

Look if I've fucked up and messed things up with you I apologize. To hopefully smooth things over then I'll offer you my ceasefire for the end of any hostilities between us for the rest of the round. Will you accept?


Whelp, I guess that didn't happen. Does that mean hostilities are still not over? Guess I better pre-empt your attack of Bereg/Lirta then, no?

I was hoping you wouldnt attack me but figured you would. That was why I was stalling so I would know how to finish my round.


If I had your ceasfire I wouldn't have. The problem for me was all my ships are scattered around, so easy for you to pick them off in bits with your soon-to-be-logistic'd fleet.

I offered it but you never said you would take it.
I don't know what I'm doing but it sounds good.
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#2631 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 10:34 AM

View PostTattersail_, on 05 February 2020 - 10:48 AM, said:

With the chance of scoring the 2 VP spend 16 influence on the cards, Jazz would have 100% accepted me move out of A/F and 4 TG's. He was focused on Wellon and Tar'mann for strategic purposes. Do any of you think he would be doing what Tapper would be doing? I planned for one neighbour and how I thought the game was going. Fuck it, i'm just going to pass. Pissed off.

I am not Jazz, so it is completely irrelevant how he'd play this situation. When I took over, I didn't take over with a promise to Blend or to you or to anyone to become a Jazz 2.0, and neither did I read his entire chat history. I did try to honor and stick to made deals, but if I see a full-fledged invasion as someone's last action and I have to play from there, I assume hostility.
As for your offer: you never really full-throated offered me that. And it would not surprise me if you never offered it to Jazz either, as you always say that you intended to offer him something.

So, to go back to my starting point...

1. in Abyz/Fria, Jazz had 1 Infantry and 1 empty planet.
2. He had already passed when you attacked the planet, so he couldn't immediately retaliate.
3. you took 2 dreads, 1 fighter, a carrier, 3 infantry and 1 destroyer along.... to kill 1 Infantry.

Even if I ignore the flavor text of The L1 wanted our systems. They would not reach an agreement with us, instead they spurned our efforts at negotiation. A pre-emptive strike towards their homeworld will focus their attention toward us. The Sardakk N'orr., any of the above does not say "hey, I am just getting a point here, I'll move out next turn". It says: "I am next to your homeworld and I intend to stay there."

I was always going to play that action card on my first action - both to show you I mean business/ am not afraid of your fleets, but also because we hadn't reached an agreement. You have plenty of hardware, but you lack influence and tokens, so call it a show of intent, or playing hardball, or pressuring you where it hurts.

Now, when I submitted my provisional I even wrote to Blend that I thought you'd not take my demand but that if you did, it would save me a ton of action cards and I'd look elsewhere.
When I took over the board state and my hand of action cards looked like I could either take a big chunk out of you, or, with much less effort take out Khell's presence here on this side of the board.
But it was an either/or and I made very clear that A/F was my key objective early on.

So no, I didn't go to the table and thought "let's be a dick, and let's pick on Tatts."
What I did think was this:
a) I am starved for Tacticals with little Influence available,
B) I have a tactical reserve of TGs to pay for research/Influence this turn or save up for later,
c) I have a lot of ground to cover before I can compete for points,
d) if A/F was mine without a war from the first or second time I spent an TT action onwards I could switch focus to a different route,
e) Light/Wave was a good research whether I'd go to war or not,
e) with L/W Emittor and my fleets and hand, I am in a good position to win a war if someone wants one, but it is going to take the better part of this round and the next,
f) if you don't hand over A/F, it's war.

I will leave it at that.
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#2632 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 11:38 AM

Tapper I think it's your go.
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#2633 User is offline   Tattersail_ 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 12:24 PM

Now that you are going to destroy my fleet in AF. Is it possible to leave it at that? I'll obviously want to try take back my systems next round but you've made your point. Going for my HW will not give you anything you dont already have or can achieve.

I do believe I'd have played differently knowing youd take over. I do think Jazz would have taken my offer too. Thing is if I moved one carrier then there could have been a chance it was destroyed and the action would've been wasted.
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#2634 User is offline   Tapper 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 01:36 PM

View PostTattersail_, on 06 February 2020 - 12:24 PM, said:

Now that you are going to destroy my fleet in AF. Is it possible to leave it at that? I'll obviously want to try take back my systems next round but you've made your point. Going for my HW will not give you anything you dont already have or can achieve.

I do believe I'd have played differently knowing youd take over. I do think Jazz would have taken my offer too. Thing is if I moved one carrier then there could have been a chance it was destroyed and the action would've been wasted.

Going for your HW blocks all your options to build (unless you take Construction primary or secondary) and moves the ships at 0.0.0 out of reach of your fleet at Lodd Eru.
I'll play Leadership now and not take use Fleet Logistics. That gives us another day or 2 to come to an agreement - otherwise I will attack your home world.
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#2635 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 03:52 PM

View Posttwelve, on 06 February 2020 - 05:13 AM, said:

View PostD, on 06 February 2020 - 02:29 AM, said:

View Posttwelve, on 06 February 2020 - 02:07 AM, said:

View PostD, on 06 February 2020 - 01:59 AM, said:

View Posttwelve, on 31 January 2020 - 03:31 PM, said:

Look if I've fucked up and messed things up with you I apologize. To hopefully smooth things over then I'll offer you my ceasefire for the end of any hostilities between us for the rest of the round. Will you accept?


Whelp, I guess that didn't happen. Does that mean hostilities are still not over? Guess I better pre-empt your attack of Bereg/Lirta then, no?

I was hoping you wouldnt attack me but figured you would. That was why I was stalling so I would know how to finish my round.


If I had your ceasfire I wouldn't have. The problem for me was all my ships are scattered around, so easy for you to pick them off in bits with your soon-to-be-logistic'd fleet.

I offered it but you never said you would take it.


:rolleyes: why wouldn't I take a free thing? Even if I was planning to conquer your homeworld I'd still take it, obviously? It doesn't deter me in any way

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#2636 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:01 PM

I'm going to use the diplomacy secondary to refresh darien and ensapta. Not sure when I should post this though.
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#2637 User is offline   Khellendros 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:03 PM

View PostImperial Historian, on 06 February 2020 - 05:01 PM, said:

I'm going to use the diplomacy secondary to refresh darien and ensapta. Not sure when I should post this though.


When it’s your turn obviously :p It’s the same whether you’ve passed or not.
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#2638 User is offline   twelve 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:05 PM

View PostKhellendros, on 06 February 2020 - 05:03 PM, said:

View PostImperial Historian, on 06 February 2020 - 05:01 PM, said:

I'm going to use the diplomacy secondary to refresh darien and ensapta. Not sure when I should post this though.


When it’s your turn obviously :p It’s the same whether you’ve passed or not.

Which I guess is right now as we wait for Toast to post his next turn
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#2639 User is offline   Imperial Historian 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:12 PM

But do i have to wait for tatts and morgoth to confirm they are or are not using the secondary? Making moves when everyone has passed is hard :p
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#2640 User is offline   Khellendros 

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Posted 06 February 2020 - 05:20 PM

View PostImperial Historian, on 06 February 2020 - 05:12 PM, said:

But do i have to wait for tatts and morgoth to confirm they are or are not using the secondary? Making moves when everyone has passed is hard :p


I would wait, yeah, unless they’re completely out of influence/strategy tokens.
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