[Wu ammanas]

I have always wondered how things spiraled out of surly control when she was empress. She seemed to always be reacting to issues and nothing seemed to be working her way. Until I read deadhouse landing and found out that she takes umbrage at being offered an advice that may be contrary or feeling bad if anyone seemed to be above her. Kellenvad never had the issue,his only problem was a tendency to megalomania. Dassem, choss,dujek never bordered in their own case. Dancer outgrew his. Although with her many strengths, she remained weak in that regard if I look back

[Nevyn]

Wu ammanas, on 24 August 2019 - 11:43 PM, said:

I have always wondered how things spiraled out of surly control when she was empress. She seemed to always be reacting to issues and nothing seemed to be working her way. Until I read deadhouse landing and found out that she takes umbrage at being offered an advice that may be contrary or feeling bad if anyone seemed to be above her. Kellenvad never had the issue,his only problem was a tendency to megalomania. Dassem, choss,dujek never bordered in their own case. Dancer outgrew his. Although with her many strengths, she remained weak in that regard if I look back

Surly is complicated but if you take the sort of scripture version of her downfall, it is brain drain around her, couple with ST and cots still manipulating her empire for their goals.

All the 'drownings' (which were basically desertions) were key allies and commanders , and mostly fellow Napans. She was left with her own scheming claw subordinates, commanders outside the family, and Dujek and Nok, who get pulled away into the conflicts on other continents.

I don't think that is a failure to take advice, as much as a person caring about the empire specifically but being caught up in a larger game and pulled from all sides.

[nacht]

Wu ammanas, on 24 August 2019 - 11:43 PM, said:

I have always wondered how things spiraled out of surly control when she was empress. She seemed to always be reacting to issues and nothing seemed to be working her way. Until I read deadhouse landing and found out that she takes umbrage at being offered an advice that may be contrary or feeling bad if anyone seemed to be above her. Kellenvad never had the issue,his only problem was a tendency to megalomania. Dassem, choss,dujek never bordered in their own case. Dancer outgrew his. Although with her many strengths, she remained weak in that regard if I look back

Some quotes would help. I didnt get this feeling or maybe missed it.

I think she thought Kellanved was border-line crazy and unreliable which is not wrong
Kellanved himself seemed to be more interested in the warrens than governing the empire.
Surly on the other hand considered it to be her duty to govern and do it well.

Surly is basically a tragedy of power. You might have a lot of power and intend to do good, but unfortunately the mistakes (that often looked like the better choices in the short term) add up.
Beyond that, I don't think she was comfortable socially and suffered because of that.

[Wu ammanas]

Nevyn, on 24 August 2019 - 11:57 PM, said:

Wu ammanas, on 24 August 2019 - 11:43 PM, said:

I have always wondered how things spiraled out of surly control when she was empress. She seemed to always be reacting to issues and nothing seemed to be working her way. Until I read deadhouse landing and found out that she takes umbrage at being offered an advice that may be contrary or feeling bad if anyone seemed to be above her. Kellenvad never had the issue,his only problem was a tendency to megalomania. Dassem, choss,dujek never bordered in their own case. Dancer outgrew his. Although with her many strengths, she remained weak in that regard if I look back

Surly is complicated but if you take the sort of scripture version of her downfall, it is brain drain around her, couple with ST and cots still manipulating her empire for their goals.

All the 'drownings' (which were basically desertions) were key allies and commanders , and mostly fellow Napans. She was left with her own scheming claw subordinates, commanders outside the family, and Dujek and Nok, who get pulled away into the conflicts on other continents.

I don't think that is a failure to take advice, as much as a person caring about the empire specifically but being caught up in a larger game and pulled from all sides.

[Wu ammanas]

You are correct. But my issue is why she couldn't see that. Looking back at an overview of the books, how come she couldn't see that many of those guys which were popular had big egos too and could leave. Kellenvad may be more interested in the concept of power (I think what he wanted to do was be a living God. Rule accross both the human world and the warren) but majority of the people respected him or feared him albeit grudgingly sometimes as the case may be. including dassem, quick Ben,dujek,kalam. Her ability not to compensate for that especially since she has been with them from the beginning and knowing that all of them seemed to have some form of moral code coupled with her poor social skills which she didn't improve from her early years to me soak of a flaw in understanding the big picture of the concept of power. Then I think she also doesn't have any form of moral code in her pursuit of power. Look at the way she wanted to deal with the wickans with adjunct tavore. Even shadowthrone seemed to have some.

This post has been edited by Wu ammanas: 26 August 2019 - 09:32 PM

[Wu ammanas]

It's a classic case of overreach. Something dancer and kellenvad learned very early in li Heng. She wasn't ready for that post. Look at Kalam thinking that if shadowthrone was still around, dryjna would never have started. He would have crushed it. There were just too many mistakes. I really must confess, despite all shadowthrone faults. The guy is a master at strategy. He successfully rolled dice with both men and gods and won a lot of times.

Wu ammanas, on 26 August 2019 - 08:56 PM, said:

Nevyn, on 24 August 2019 - 11:57 PM, said:

Wu ammanas, on 24 August 2019 - 11:43 PM, said:

I have always wondered how things spiraled out off surly control when she was empress. She seemed to always be reacting to issues and nothing seemed to be working her way. Until I read deadhouse landing and found out that she takes umbrage at being offered an advice that may be contrary or feeling bad if anyone seemed to be above her. Kellenvad never had the issue,his only problem was a tendency to megalomania. Dassem, choss,dujek never bordered in their own case. Dancer outgrew his. Although with her many strengths, she remained weak in that regard if I look back

Surly is complicated but if you take the sort of scripture version of her downfall, it is brain drain around her, couple with ST and cots still manipulating her empire for their goals.

All the 'drownings' (which were basically desertions) were key allies and commanders , and mostly fellow Napans. She was left with her own scheming claw subordinates, commanders outside the family, and Dujek and Nok, who get pulled away into the conflicts on other continents.

I don't think that is a failure to take advice, as much as a person caring about the empire specifically but being caught up in a larger game and pulled from all sides.

This post has been edited by Wu ammanas: 26 August 2019 - 09:32 PM