[Gait]

OK, with fresh eyes here's my rundown of the thread

I felt like Kilava was keeping his options open but he has committed to Gam which I guess isn't that surprising considering their ongoing back and forth, but like I said yesterday it just feels like deja vu. He's had a polarised reception all game. A couple people have been really hung up on him, most everyone else hasn't had much to say about him at all. I fall into the latter camp; the main things I've noticed with Kilava relate to other people's actions towards him which speaks for itself really. He's been around at useful times, and has posted agreement or disagreement with contemporary issues, but in terms of his own content seems to have just got stuck on in the arguments of day 1 with Barg, and now lately with Gamelon. I was starting to feel there was something odd about the day one interaction - Barg and Kil continuing the back and forth, Shel quickly dropping it - but then I was wrong about Barg.

Rikkter is nowhere to be seen. He looks to have completely stepped back from the thread once people started saying nice things about him. I didn't like his reasoning for lynching PG while simultaneously saying PG would likely die anyway. After this there's literally nothing to go on. Just drunk jokes and single lines telling us he's totally going to post properly soon. Well, it's getting a bit late in the game... He hasn't given his thoughts on the main action/outcomes from yesterday, nevermind today. What to say? Rikkter if you're town we need you to play the game.

I don't buy Gamelon's explanation for why he pursues Kilava rather than myself or Shel

Gamelon, on 21 August 2019 - 01:55 AM, said:

between Gait and Sheltatha, one of them is scum and the other is not

Gamelon, on 21 August 2019 - 07:33 AM, said:

Not impossible, sure, but right now I find [Shel fake revealing] improbable.

If you are convinced that one of me and Shel is scum, and you buy Shel's reveal as genuine, then the logical route for a town player is to go for me. Pushing for Kilava just looks like an easy target which happily aligns with Ven's thinking (i.e, there's a far easier momentum there). I've felt that both Shel and Gam are really sucking up to Ven today.

Speaking of Shel, the disappearing act continues. After the day one argument he completely coasted through day two. After he got pressure on day three he disappeared despite supposedly being both roled and totally set on Barg. And today he has again slipped out of the spotlight while Gam comes in to make him look better and shift the focus.

Ultimately, I'm still set on Shel and Gam. Their behaviour has been screaming scum. It's all far too convenient and both frequently contradict themselves - or reality - whenever it is useful. Their concrete actions have been screaming scum. I do not want to lose to killers that are so blatant as to outright block a lynch on their partner. PG had a roled PM and he didn't buy the reveal so I see no reason that I would (especially not based on Shel being able to read on thread speculation, at a time when PG was asking him for clarification that he didn't provide until waaaay later). PG pushed both of these two hard and I think he hit the nail on the head.

[Gait]

Gamelon, on 21 August 2019 - 08:05 AM, said:

As for why Kilava when i’ve been talking about Gait and Sheltatha, I thought that was clear. As Gait themselves points out, there is a possibility, however much I currently find it unlikely, that Shel is deliberately playing dumb with their reveal mistake.

Oh so you're just so 1000% certain about Kilava that it explains away any strange behaviour. Weird, why does that ring a bell? Oh, it's the exact same BS that Shel peddles about Barg.

Town don't get this kind of certainty, scum do.

[Sheltatha Lore]

I am here. I believe we have a little over 1 hour? Going back to where I left off yesterday.

[Gait]

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 03:47 PM, said:

I am here. I believe we have a little over 1 hour? Going back to where I left off yesterday.

We've longer that that right? It's more like 12 or 13 by my count.

Path-Shaper, on 20 August 2019 - 04:47 PM, said:

It is Day 4. 35 hours and 59 minutes remaining
6 Players still alive: Gait, Gamelon, Kilava, Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore, Venesara

4 votes to lynch, 3 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Gait, Gamelon, Kilava, Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore, Venesara

[Sheltatha Lore]

Oh fuck, yes you are right. I was trying to do 12 hour leaps in my head and came on at this time thinking we were at the end of the day (and wondering where everyone was). I wasn't lying when I said I was still in the game and not giving up. Last night truly was busy.

It is amusing you Gait are the one here, given what I am about to say. I was rereading and looking back at today, I think you have a little explaining to do Gait.


First of all, let us discuss you reaction to my slip up (fucking up finally saved me). In the quote below, I feel like you say you saw that slip up too except you discount it and feel it was too obvious to mention. This seems like a strange thing to discount in arguing I am scum not roled town like I say. It is almost as if you are pushing it under the rug in your continued push to save scum the trouble of a night kill and lynch me instead. In fact, this is also odd in the context of you arguing against my reasoning that with 2 scum, it is better to leave a potential roled town alone and look for the other scum. You know I will put a provisional down, and if I guard correctly, scum is screwed. Better to eliminate any chance of a night kill being blocked.

Gait, on 21 August 2019 - 03:10 AM, said:

Venesara, on 21 August 2019 - 02:31 AM, said:

How much does this slip clear Shel? Could he have planted that line so far back?

I didn't really realise that people hadn't picked that up, I assumed it was part of the initial reveal as a given tbh. As for planting it, when you have people speculating openly about the role names and PG saying things like this then personally I don't find it unlikely.

Prazec Goul, on 19 August 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

Quick question whilst catching up, has anyone referred to themselves as something different than Motato? Cause I am not Motato, I am Tomato. Even tongue in cheek or something.

For someone coming after me for being over dramatic in my summary of events, your characterization of Gamelon today seems to be a stretch. Gamelon, for all of his rambling prose, himself clarifies that there are 2 (not one) scum, so a discussion of who is scum between you and me while looking at Kilava as the second scum is really not unusual. You seem to be trying to do your own double stack with me and Gamelon. Also, sometimes I think people unconsciously (or consciously) accuse others of what they are doing themselves. Almost how you are defending Kilava in a tangential sense.

Gait, on 21 August 2019 - 03:33 AM, said:

Otherwise, I'm basically getting deja vu from yesterday. Kilava is around to defend himself but isn't offering much. Except encouraging people to vote.

Gamelon has gone through a bunch of posts and ended up in much the same place as before. Ruling people out with little explanation, mentioning Shel and myself a bunch and then going for Kilava. To me there's a disconnect here between what he says and what his actions do.

A couple of the things he has said:

"If it is a role reveal then they should totally be lynched to confirm, because no way there are two town roles in this game" - random drive by on Kilava.
"between Gait and Sheltatha, one of them is scum and the other is not" - but then he's leaning for Kilava rather than either of us.

Who does the gap between behaviour and action benefit? Well, he could've put Shel on 4 votes which would've made him easily the most likely candidate. And Shel rather returned the favour by pushing us onto Barg instead of Gam.

Gait, on 21 August 2019 - 05:22 AM, said:

Venesara, on 21 August 2019 - 04:27 AM, said:

Want to address this. Much of my faith in the reveal comes from new information, I admit. I don't remember Gam doing that tbh, I need to reread for context because I felt earlier he was trying to shift the thread.

Just follow the quotes; he puts it on a plate for Shel twice, totally out of the blue. I'm quite sure that you'll find Gam a believer because as far as I can see they're looking for reasons to vote anyone but Shel (while presenting Shel as an option he's considering... just one he happens never to actually pursue). Nevermind that it contradicts what Gam said about roles earlier.

Maybe it's just because I'd already taken the "slip" as read, but I'm not surprised at all that the reveal conveniently lines up with earlier meta speculation (or the speculation of the VPI specifically for that matter). If you're fake revealing then that is just your MO. You look at the other reveal, you look at people's speculation, you look for anything that might make people believe you. Maybe you test the water a little. What would you fake reveal as, a sausage? Of course not.

I see Shel and Gam as scum. Not just for their scummy behaviour, but for how they've directly acted to benefit each other repeatedly. Gam dropping a drive-by onto Kilava when a vote on Shel would've made Shel the clear lead candidate. Shel flat out refusing to vote for Gam, personally blocking his lynch. And now Gam, in an unprecedented flurry of activity, swoops in and helps Shel out again. That isn't surprising - that's blatant.

Venesara, on 21 August 2019 - 04:27 AM, said:

I think the line can be confusing. He doesn't quote anyone, so out of context it looks weird. The first time I read it - probably he mentioned my name and I'm really vain - I read my name as a noun in direct address, as in "Yes, Ven - you and I are innocent in my mind" . So I was like wtf are you talking about and had to look back to see he was talking to PG and I had just read it incorrectly (well, as intended I suppose).

I guess; I felt it was clearly aimed at PG. I mean, he's talking about roled town PMs and PG had asked him for an explanation a few minutes beforehand. Even if you think the line is somewhat unclear, the way Gam raises it feels super contrived to me.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Gait, on 20 August 2019 - 03:49 AM, said:

Venesara, on 20 August 2019 - 02:51 AM, said:

Rikkter, on 20 August 2019 - 02:22 AM, said:

Venesara, on 20 August 2019 - 02:07 AM, said:

Rikkter, on 20 August 2019 - 01:59 AM, said:

Venesara, on 20 August 2019 - 01:56 AM, said:

OK I am around till timeout now.

Are you drinking? It can only get worse from here my friend.

Oh yes, of course. That's a given.

So what are your thoughts on the reveal and things?

I absolutely think scum would pull a fake reveal like this, BUT... It doesn't mean it happened but with no counter reveal...I think he's well-played roled town for now (if he is). It was smart to lay low early on, and if he really got lucky with that heal, I would probably reveal too the next day. It also gave us an explanation of no NK. It fits a lot of puzzle pieces together.

Also, where's Gait again? He hasn't been around since the clock unfroze. I realize I wasn't around either but ....I am now. Like 1 hour till timeout, is that right?

Hanging out with my brother . It's super late but to briefly give my impressions of the thread:

Gamelon has arrived and thrown a bunch of speculation around that doesn't hold up to scrutiny well. It just seems like he's stretching to say something while he has nothing to say about the main action of the thread.

Barghast continues to prefer Kilava wihch isn't surprising anyone. In line with Sheltatha's points, this could be a nice safe position for a killer to look good since the train hasn't picked up momentum. At the same time, I've definitely fixated onto one person from the start before - and some of Kilava's posts do read weirdly, like he's commenting on the main topics being raised but in a way somehow disconnected from how I read the thread if that makes sense (I'm not concretely certain what he's referring to with the Barg/Shel/Gam triangle, for example).

I think Rikkter's distrust of the reveal is fair enough in itself. The timing is always the tricky issue with this kind of thing. My initial reaction was in line with Barg's point that it would be a ballsy position for scum to take. But thinking about it more, I'm not so sure it would be, since if Rikkter is a killer he has more information than us about what might be coming up. Statements like "if he is the healer, he's likely dead anyways" always get my attention.

Starting to look back, you seem to defend Kilava an awful lot Gait. Why is that?

[Sheltatha Lore]

I am also questioning Rikkter in my reread. What is interesting is how on day 3, Rikkter seems to be fixated on discrediting the healer and throwing out the possible presence of a symp. Under the assumption he is drunk. Pretty good control of game play for someone drinking (and the Shakira hips post, on reread, seems more planted than spontaneous). And the whole day 1 fight over Gait actually should have been a nonissue, if I hadn't been a fucking idiot and not understood game mechanics. Rikkter rolled with the punches though, and played the over-the-top hurt townie who shouldn't have had to explain themselves. And not getting lynched after a significant train was started on day 1 seems to be quite the bullet dodge for Rikkter

Rikkter, on 20 August 2019 - 12:49 AM, said:

Barghast, on 20 August 2019 - 12:36 AM, said:

@Rikkter: Prazec was on thread when Galayn was at L-2. LG was lynched 2 hours later. Do you think it's more likely that Prazec is a healer or that they are a killer who forgot to submit a kill order and then decided to fake-reveal and fake-PI the least active player in the game, Venesara?

Sheltatha Lore, on 20 August 2019 - 12:19 AM, said:

Are you actually going to vote this time Barg?

I said I was taking a shower. Every time I committed on thread to being around at a specific time, I was. So do me a favor and make an effort of reading a post before you reply. Generally makes the game more fun. Try it.


Vote Sheltatha

I think it is more likely that the killers decided no kill and a fake reveal. God knows I've done it a time or two.

But if I am wrong, and he CF's a healer, then we can take his opinions on game as gospel. If he is a healer he's likely screwed tonight.

Rikkter, on 20 August 2019 - 02:13 AM, said:

Venesara, on 20 August 2019 - 02:06 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 13 August 2019 - 12:49 AM, said:

Motato? Is that supposed to be a tomato? Or a potato? Who the fuck knows?

Oh right, Pete knows. But who the fuck cares?

You do. But when you don't even know what you're yourself, how can you tell who the fuck is Peat?

It is Day 1. The clock has been frozen with 36 Hours and 00 Minutes remaining.

The opening is weird. There is no more RP since this. Didn't GP claim to have "tomato" instead of the RI "motato"? This would have to be really clever now to pull a no-kill fake reveal and support it by claiming "tomato" - I can see this wording from P-S as a clue to roled town, but it's a stretch. At the same time GP didn't make a big deal out of it, meaning if he wasn't paying attention to the opening, it's probably from his PM.

Then Pete/Peat. Names of the killers? I have nothing on this. The only reason I think this is even worth mentioning is GP's reveal.

I took peat as a typo, but you may be on to something. Pete and Peat are the killers, but if GL was a tomato...

If he were roled town I don't think Mess would have given up so easy. So more likely a symp. I need to reread day 1 and 2 to see if he tried any signaling.

Rikkter, on 20 August 2019 - 03:26 AM, said:

Gait, on 20 August 2019 - 02:48 AM, said:

Rikkter, on 20 August 2019 - 02:13 AM, said:

If he were roled town I don't think Mess would have given up so easy. So more likely a symp. I need to reread day 1 and 2 to see if he tried any signaling.

A symp is super unlikely mathematically; town could lose as early as the second lynch, that would be pretty crazy.

Agreed, but so is a healer, although it is one of the more useless roles in most games.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Also, in the interest of this discussion of you Gait and Rikkter, take a look at this post (from Gamelon, I know surprising right?).

Gamelon, on 19 August 2019 - 04:31 PM, said:

Okay, I decided to read through Day 2 with a focus on looking to see who might have given credence to my accusation of Prazec as scum, perhaps with a view to starting momentum for a lynch after GL. Unfortunately, this did not pan out as much as I had hoped, because discussion of GL absolutely dominated (for reasons I still do not understand, that lynch never made much sense to me).
Anyways, going off on a tangent before getting to more serious stuff next, the initial thing that jumped out at me is that the first person to defend Prazec and be dismissive about my vote was...Venesara the Healed. Now if I was paranoid, I would say that was eeenteresting. But actually, perhaps this was the reason why Prazec chose to heal Venesara, although he didn't say as much when I asked.

Venesara, on 15 August 2019 - 07:57 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 15 August 2019 - 12:38 AM, said:

Prazec Goul, on 14 August 2019 - 10:17 PM, said:

After reading up I think Rikkter would be a good vote. I've got good vibes from Ven, Sheltatha, Gait and Barghast for different reasons. I'll explain further tomorrow. Bad vibes from Kilava, Rikkter, Galayn Lord and Gamelon.

Okay to expand on that, I don't like Kilavas defense of Rikkter at all but maybe they've muddied things on purpose. All this arguing on thread back and forth yet, even though present, it feels like Gamelon and Galayn Lord didn't join in. Killers letting us argue amongst ourselves?

Like I said I'll read up and try to expand my thoughts further tomorrow.

Hmm, who else hasn't been around for the arguing back and forth, I feel like someone's missing from this list, can't quite put my finger on it, who could it be...

Wait, wait, it couldn't be Prazec himself could it? Surely he wouldn't label people who weren't around for the arguing as suspicious just on that when he himself also fits into that category? Would he? I mean, it would so audacious as to verge on the moronic!

I say Prazec is a killer. They expressed a happiness to vote for Gait before they came on (which I thought was reasonable at the time but some of you guys seem to think is a 'bad thing', so I'm putting it in here), they come on and 1) just echo an argument already made by others without adding anything further, and 2) highlight the lesser-posting players because they feel that's an easy non-confrontational target. Not to mention they've managed to pick out four players out of nine - eight not including themselves. Don't stick your neck out so much Prazec!

Vote Prazec Goul

For hypocritical reasoning, which as we all know is a scum trait. But for reals, this here is a killer y'all.

Wow, this post is terrible. Did you say anything? All I see is a vote. Jolly sarcasm is not convincing. You say PG is a killer because they voted Gait - which you still think is reasonable (!?) - but you're gonna use the reasons "some of you guys" have to drop a vote? What the fuck. Gotta look at this later.

Okay, on to the stuff I actually set out to search for:
The first person to voice some agreement with me on Prazec is Rikkter

Rikkter, on 15 August 2019 - 02:32 PM, said:

Ok, I just got caught up and reread that last hour before the failed lynch.


One thing that strikes me as odd is that Barghast and Gait made a big push for me as lynch du jour immediately after I said I would be unavailable. There were other options out there, but they went after the one that couldn't defend themselves.


Next is Prazec. I pretty much agree with what others have been saying here. He is conveniently too late to the party, and that post where he lists the people he trusts and the ones he doesn't is a bit over the top. This is day 1 on Mafia. How could you POSSIBLY have good feelings about anyone yet? After several days yes, but I for one don't trust anyone yet.


Last the talk on GL. Yeah, when strung together it does look like he's coasting. I'd like to see how he plays now that the real game is afoot.


My main focus at the moment is Barghast, Gait and Prazec. While I think it is likely that one killer would be in the 4 that voted me, I suspect that the other killer either voted somewhere else or didn't vote at all. My gut is telling me that this looks like Prazec.

It also stood out to me that for all the mentions of Barghast's posting being sensible by just about everyone other than Sheltatha, they sure have been off on quite a few things. As in the post below, about Prazec, Galayn Lord, and me (though you can't know that last for sure as yet, I suppose you'll just have to trust me on it ). Yep, that Galayn 'case' sure looked super "solid."

Barghast, on 15 August 2019 - 06:40 PM, said:

D2:

Ugh, Prazec's stream of consciousness puts me on the fence. He throws out a lot of shit to see what sticks. That looks way off to me because I like to do when I'm scum But then it's hard to really put a finger on any misstep there. Prazec was first to point out Galayn's coasting and they also got Gamelon to talk themselves into this mess:

Gamelon, on 15 August 2019 - 12:38 AM, said:

Prazec Goul, on 14 August 2019 - 10:17 PM, said:

After reading up I think Rikkter would be a good vote. I've got good vibes from Ven, Sheltatha, Gait and Barghast for different reasons. I'll explain further tomorrow. Bad vibes from Kilava, Rikkter, Galayn Lord and Gamelon.

Okay to expand on that, I don't like Kilavas defense of Rikkter at all but maybe they've muddied things on purpose. All this arguing on thread back and forth yet, even though present, it feels like Gamelon and Galayn Lord didn't join in. Killers letting us argue amongst ourselves?

Like I said I'll read up and try to expand my thoughts further tomorrow.

Hmm, who else hasn't been around for the arguing back and forth, I feel like someone's missing from this list, can't quite put my finger on it, who could it be...

Wait, wait, it couldn't be Prazec himself could it? Surely he wouldn't label people who weren't around for the arguing as suspicious just on that when he himself also fits into that category? Would he? I mean, it would so audacious as to verge on the moronic!

I say Prazec is a killer. They expressed a happiness to vote for Gait before they came on (which I thought was reasonable at the time but some of you guys seem to think is a 'bad thing', so I'm putting it in here), they come on and 1) just echo an argument already made by others without adding anything further, and 2) highlight the lesser-posting players because they feel that's an easy non-confrontational target. Not to mention they've managed to pick out four players out of nine - eight not including themselves. Don't stick your neck out so much Prazec!

Vote Prazec Goul

For hypocritical reasoning, which as we all know is a scum trait. But for reals, this here is a killer y'all.

Gamelon's D1 behavior was quite damning so getting this defensive about being called out on it looks scummy. And then we have more of the same:

Gamelon, on 15 August 2019 - 01:09 PM, said:

Obviously your post hit a nerve Prazec otherwise I wouldn't have voted for you. And I said exactly why that was already. And I don't see GL defending me in that post, so you keep doing you scumboy.

As for the Galayn case, most have been said and it's looking solid. They've been coasting and a claim there was nothing worth commenting on is straight up bullshit.

I'm currently considering Kilava, Gamelon, or Galayn for a vote. Not gonna do it yet because I don't want to put Galayn at L-2 and Kilava hasn't spoken today yet. But I'm around for a few more hours and planning to cast a vote before bedtime. I should also be around for the timeout.

Gait decides to latch on to my Prazec accusation once the GL lynch looks like it might have the potential to stall when GL votes for themselves.

Gait, on 15 August 2019 - 11:19 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 15 August 2019 - 10:48 PM, said:

If you want it in non-sarcastic speech - Prazec has been expressing favour for voting for whatever the de jour vote happens to be, but without actually doing much voting, instead waiting to see if the wind does indeed head in that direction.

I actually think that's quite an astute observation.

Prazec said earlier that Gamelon was his top pick for scum. Gamelon currently only has one vote. It's hardly like you'd be dropping the hammer by adding yours. If you're town, why not put a vote on to make your top pick a more feasible option for a lynch? Why wait to "see what's what"? What exactly are you waiting for?

And Rikkter again voices the suspicion of Prazec at the end of the day, essentially setting up for their planned direction on day 3 following GL's lynch (where it not for Prazec's reveal today).

Rikkter, on 16 August 2019 - 01:51 AM, said:

OK, I'm done. If not for GL, I probably would have wanted to pursue Prazec's dodginess. But, I will be asleep at timeout, and I think this lynch needs to happen.

vote Galayn Lord

So what do I get from any of that. Well, Gait and Rikkter I think. They seemed most like the ones continuing to want a GL lynch after their self vote and beginning to voice a direction for the following day's lynch. Yes, Gait did vote for Rikkter on day 1, but that was the 4th vote from 6 needed, with only about ten minutes remaining till end of day. A calculated gamble to distance?
Now I didn't mention Sheltatha at all in there. I was surprised by how little there was to actually mention. Aside from their Barghast vote today there's hardly anything of substance to latch on to.

Has day been unfrozen yet?

[Path-Shaper]

It is Day 4. 11 hours and 53 minutes remaining
6 Players still alive: Gait, Gamelon, Kilava, Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore, Venesara

4 votes to lynch, 3 votes to go to night.


Players not voted: Gait, Gamelon, Kilava, Rikkter, Sheltatha Lore, Venesara

[Sheltatha Lore]

Ok, I am still rereading and crystallizing my thoughts. But Rikkter is an interesting reread. Especially if you do two things: read his "drunk" posts as calculated and think about how successfully he has discounted himself in this game. I have seen this type of gameplay before, a long time ago, and remember being completely fooled by the careless, slaphappy ramble of a harmless drunkard who doesn't care to play properly. Anecdotal I know, but most of our discussions have centered around myself, Gamelon, Gait, and Kilava. Rikkter has been brought up a little, but not to the serious extent as the rest.

One of the things that I keep coming back to with Rikkter is what induced him to vote a lynch on a potential modkill? I mean, it is a safe bet, good logic behind it, and there really was nothing on thread to push with hellos and weak dragonsecks. All of that makes sense. But turn Rikkter into a seasoned, calculated player, who was probably actively talking to PS about the absence of Gait if that was his partner, and you can see the opportunities open up. Barg was the first to inquire after Gait, but Rikkter was the first to take it seriously.

I guess the real question is: did anyone think PS would let a game be broken by scum not showing up and being modkilled? Has that happened before in previous games? In this game, PS clarified that backups were in the wings, but I think a modkill would be allowed for a roled town or RI, but not for 50% of the scum team.

So why would Rikkter act like lynching a possible modkill was important? As town, I could see some sense in it (we certainly did) but I see more sense in it if you look at it as theater from scum.

[Gait]

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

I was rereading and looking back at today, I think you have a little explaining to do Gait.

Ah, the awaited OMGUS part 2 arrives. Sure thing.

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

First of all, let us discuss you reaction to my slip up (fucking up finally saved me). In the quote below, I feel like you say you saw that slip up too except you discount it and feel it was too obvious to mention. This seems like a strange thing to discount in arguing I am scum not roled town like I say.

I assume people read the thread, yes. You claimed that your PM said potato, I read that as you claiming your PM said potato, huge shock I guess?

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

In fact, this is also odd in the context of you arguing against my reasoning that with 2 scum, it is better to leave a potential roled town alone and look for the other scum. You know I will put a provisional down, and if I guard correctly, scum is screwed. Better to eliminate any chance of a night kill being blocked.

It's D-day. I'm going for the person I think is the most likely scum. What else do you expect? Trying to convince people that we should just leave you alone because you are claiming to be roled town is incredibly bogus in the first place. We need to hit scum today and you're acting like it's weird that I won't just leave you alone because you might be helpful in the future? If we don't hit scum there isn't a future. This is standard D-Day reasoning. Your behaviour has persistently prioritised your own survival above anything else. Except for refusing to lynch Gamelon that is. Not to mention how convenient it is that you claimed the exact role that creates this situation...

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

For someone coming after me for being over dramatic in my summary of events, your characterization of Gamelon today seems to be a stretch. Gamelon, for all of his rambling prose, himself clarifies that there are 2 (not one) scum, so a discussion of who is scum between you and me while looking at Kilava as the second scum is really not unusual.

I can't say I'm surprised that you're now defending Gamelon, despite having named him as one of the two people you dislike in yesterday's analysis. Both of you seem quite happy to namedrop each other. But when push comes to shove it's a totally different story.

Yes, I understand that there are two scum. However, Gamelon stated:

1. One of me and you are scum
2. He thinks your reveal is genuine and it isn't probable that it's false

The logic here is easy to follow and points in a clear direction. But then he votes Kilava based on coasting. I think it's more likely that he's just looking to push the train that looks easier.

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

Gait, on 20 August 2019 - 03:49 AM, said:

Barghast continues to prefer Kilava wihch isn't surprising anyone. In line with Sheltatha's points, this could be a nice safe position for a killer to look good since the train hasn't picked up momentum. At the same time, I've definitely fixated onto one person from the start before - and some of Kilava's posts do read weirdly, like he's commenting on the main topics being raised but in a way somehow disconnected from how I read the thread if that makes sense (I'm not concretely certain what he's referring to with the Barg/Shel/Gam triangle, for example).

Starting to look back, you seem to defend Kilava an awful lot Gait. Why is that?

This is just an observation of Barg's behaviour, from when I was pushing on Barg. I'm backing up the point you made that Barg could be holding a safe 'town' position without really putting himself out there. I imagine I've described a fair number of thread-interactions while I've been pushing people. It's a natural part of the game. Indeed I'd say it's practically unavoidable to avoid discussing people's behaviour - despite the best efforts of some people here to prove otherwise. The same as yesterday, your reading of the thread seems rather distant from the facts as I see them. Since you're keen on quoting your buddy Gamelon, here's his observation: Gait and Kilava have never had much interaction or much to say about each other. Soooo which is it fellas?

This post has been edited by Gait: 21 August 2019 - 05:40 PM

[Gait]

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

For someone coming after me for being over dramatic in my summary of events

As I stated yesterday, my issue is not you being "over dramatic" or using "strong words". It's that you misrepresented the reality of what happened in order to say to the exact people who are here today that I had been swinging at them. My issue is that this is just not accurate to the facts and that this is readily apparent on reading the posts (indeed, you yourself quickly walked back your accusation). So it doesn't read as genuine, well-motivated analysis, but rather as ignoring the facts to suit a narrative you want to push. Downplaying this as if I'm simply complaining about your phrasing is disingenuous, especially given that I already clarified this point.

Edit: clarity

This post has been edited by Gait: 21 August 2019 - 05:58 PM

[Sheltatha Lore]

Gait, on 21 August 2019 - 05:33 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

I was rereading and looking back at today, I think you have a little explaining to do Gait.

Ah, the awaited OMGUS part 2 arrives. Sure thing. Easy to setup an OMGUS situation when you are one of four suspects in my book. Just wait for me to read over your stuff, find things suspicious and all of the sudden you can discredit me with the "fake news" blarehorn.

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

First of all, let us discuss you reaction to my slip up (fucking up finally saved me). In the quote below, I feel like you say you saw that slip up too except you discount it and feel it was too obvious to mention. This seems like a strange thing to discount in arguing I am scum not roled town like I say.

I assume people read the thread, yes. You claimed that your PM said potato, I read that as you claiming your PM said potato, huge shock I guess? More you coming at me hard as scum without bringing up the possibility that I am what I say I am. You have a large boner for me, and I think that might be because I threaten you.

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

In fact, this is also odd in the context of you arguing against my reasoning that with 2 scum, it is better to leave a potential roled town alone and look for the other scum. You know I will put a provisional down, and if I guard correctly, scum is screwed. Better to eliminate any chance of a night kill being blocked.

It's D-day. I'm going for the person I think is the most likely scum. What else do you expect? Trying to convince people that we should just leave you alone because you are claiming to be roled town is incredibly bogus in the first place. We need to hit scum today and you're acting like it's weird that I won't just leave you alone because you might be helpful in the future? If we don't hit scum there isn't a future. This is standard D-Day reasoning. Your behaviour has persistently prioritised your own survival above anything else. Except for refusing to lynch Gamelon that is. Not to mention how convenient it is that you claimed the exact role that creates this situation... I think you deliberately miss my point and try to harp on lynching scum is the only thing that matters, which isn't the case if you consider having a roled town in play. As to prioritizing my survival, that is a gross mischaracterization of my game play (just look at being ready to be lynched day 3). I actually think you are projecting your desperate need for survival here onto me.

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

For someone coming after me for being over dramatic in my summary of events, your characterization of Gamelon today seems to be a stretch. Gamelon, for all of his rambling prose, himself clarifies that there are 2 (not one) scum, so a discussion of who is scum between you and me while looking at Kilava as the second scum is really not unusual.

I can't say I'm surprised that you're now defending Gamelon, despite having named him as one of the two people you dislike in yesterday's analysis. As you know (and again mischaracterize) my analysis was starting with Day 1 with the promise of reviewing the rest of the days. I kind of broke off when you jumped down my throat and did your best to brow beat me away. I still am making cases, as I said I would, but saying that my analysis yesterday was complete is absurd, and you know that in this hyperbolic burst. Both of you seem quite happy to namedrop each other. But when push comes to shove it's a totally different story.

Yes, I understand that there are two scum. However, Gamelon stated:

1. One of me and you are scum
2. He thinks your reveal is genuine and it isn't probable that it's false

The logic here is easy to follow and points in a clear direction. But then he votes Kilava based on coasting. There have been no votes. Who is blowing things out of proportion now, hmm? I think it's more likely that he's just looking to push the train that looks easier.

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

Gait, on 20 August 2019 - 03:49 AM, said:

Barghast continues to prefer Kilava wihch isn't surprising anyone. In line with Sheltatha's points, this could be a nice safe position for a killer to look good since the train hasn't picked up momentum. At the same time, I've definitely fixated onto one person from the start before - and some of Kilava's posts do read weirdly, like he's commenting on the main topics being raised but in a way somehow disconnected from how I read the thread if that makes sense (I'm not concretely certain what he's referring to with the Barg/Shel/Gam triangle, for example).

Starting to look back, you seem to defend Kilava an awful lot Gait. Why is that?

This is just an observation of Barg's behaviour, from when I was pushing on Barg. I'm backing up the point you made that Barg could be holding a safe 'town' position without really putting himself out there. I imagine I've described a fair number of thread-interactions while I've been pushing people. It's a natural part of the game. Indeed I'd say it's practically unavoidable to avoid discussing people's behaviour - despite the best efforts of some people here to prove otherwise. The same as yesterday, your reading of the thread seems rather distant from the facts as I see them. Since you're keen on quoting your buddy Gamelon, here's his observation: Gait and Kilava have never had much interaction or much to say about each other. Soooo which is it fellas? Looks like both to me from my read.

[Sheltatha Lore]

Gait, on 21 August 2019 - 05:57 PM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:24 PM, said:

For someone coming after me for being over dramatic in my summary of events

As I stated yesterday, my issue is not you being "over dramatic" or using "strong words". It's that you misrepresented the reality of what happened in order to say to the exact people who are here today that I had been swinging at them. My issue is that this is just not accurate to the facts and that this is readily apparent on reading the posts (indeed, you yourself quickly walked back your accusation). So it doesn't read as genuine, well-motivated analysis, but rather as ignoring the facts to suit a narrative you want to push. Downplaying this as if I'm simply complaining about your phrasing is disingenuous, especially given that I already clarified this point.

Edit: clarity

Just pointing out hypocrisy where I see it. As you acknowledge, I backed down when called out. I doubt you will do the same.

[Gait]

Regarding Rikkter, I've said a few times throughout the game that I think it's weird how quickly the pressure evaporates every time he's had any, without him seeming to do anything to cause that himself. I also don't like that he's disappeared as soon as people started saying nice things about him, nor his habit of dropping by to tell us that he'll post later without much materialising. But it's hard to know what to say because, well, he isn't posting. It's just the classic issue with people who stop being active; you stop having much to go on.

[Gait]

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 06:04 PM, said:

Just pointing out hypocrisy where I see it. As you acknowledge, I backed down when called out. I doubt you will do the same.

It isn't hypocrisy when the thing you're accusing me of is different from the thing I was accusing you of though, which is rather my point.

I would certainly change my views if I was presented new issues or I thought I was way off the mark on something, sure. But I try to be rigorous and to say things that I actually believe in. So yes, I'll stand behind what I'm saying. You backed down from your argument immediately but that itself raises questions. Didn't you believe in what you were saying? Weren't you reading those posts?

At the end of the day, saying "Gait fingered these people" is simply a matter of facts. You had the same posts in front of you as everyone else but somehow came to present different facts. When pressed on this, your response was simply "I guess I should just shut up then, huh?" which completely deflects from the actual issue at hand. Then shortly thereafter you slipped out of the spotlight again.

[Gait]

Are you still on mobile? You couldn't use a formatting that is a bit more friendly to engage with?

[Sheltatha Lore]

What is wrong with my current formatting. I am currently desktop (and have been for the last several hours).

If it is any help (and if you even would believe me at all), I did believe what I was writing about you. I was looking at each person on day 1 with different eyes and saw a lot of alt names cross your posts. I wrongly interpreted that as fingering a lot of people, which obviously was a mischaracterization. That doesn't mean I absolve you or think your activity since then is clean, free of suspicion. But I wasn't even done yet with a reread, mostly writing things down as I went, when you called me out and then proceeded to crawl down my gullet. And backing off (both intentionally and due to a busy day yesterday without a computer) apparently let other people think through things not involving just my faux pas (and even noting my potato tomato fuckup, which ironically I was not aware of even up to the the point Gamelon was asking me what I said).

So yes, I have been stupid this game at times. And yes, a lot of the perceived pity-parties are sincere apologetics as I try to contribute but fuck up quite a bit. So take it or leave it. But claiming you are pure and holier than me is laughable.

[Gait]

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 06:03 PM, said:

Easy to setup an OMGUS situation when you are one of four suspects in my book.

Or perhaps it's that you started making weak, factually inaccurate, accusations towards me shortly after I called your reveal BS.

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 06:03 PM, said:

More you coming at me hard as scum without bringing up the possibility that I am what I say I am. You have a large boner for me, and I think that might be because I threaten you.

Because I think lynching you is our best chance of hitting scum and because your reveal reeks of BS. You even spoke yesterday about the environment reveals create and now you're acting like it's suspicious for people not to believe you... What is saying that I don't believe your reveal, if not discussing whether you are what you say? I discussed it, I think it's BS, I've given my reasons clearly. Or do you mean that I don't give weight to your silly argument that we should just ignore you because you could be useful in the future? "Hey guys, don't lynch me following my dubious-ass reveal, because the role I claimed in my dubious-ass reveal will totally help you later". See where I might have a problem with this?

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 06:03 PM, said:

I think you deliberately miss my point and try to harp on lynching scum is the only thing that matters, which isn't the case if you consider having a roled town in play. As to prioritizing my survival, that is a gross mischaracterization of my game play (just look at being ready to be lynched day 3). I actually think you are projecting your desperate need for survival here onto me.

No shit? It's D-day that's how it works. Lynching scum today matters far more than "but if I'm not lying about my useful role I might totally be useful tonight". As I've said at numerous points, I see your convenient disappearances as being your go-to strategy for deflecting and avoiding pressure, and it seems to have worked so far.

As for projecting just... what?

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 06:03 PM, said:

As you know (and again mischaracterize) my analysis was starting with Day 1 with the promise of reviewing the rest of the days. I kind of broke off when you jumped down my throat and did your best to brow beat me away. I still am making cases, as I said I would, but saying that my analysis yesterday was complete is absurd, and you know that in this hyperbolic burst.

I didn't say your analysis was complete, I simply observed that you had named him as a suspect yesterday but that I don't find it surprising that my two candidates for scum defend each other. Your response here is longer than the "hyperbolic burst" it is responding to (read: three sentences).

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 06:03 PM, said:

There have been no votes. Who is blowing things out of proportion now, hmm?

Mb, he said Kilava was his clear preference or whatever, you know what I mean.

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 04:38 PM, said:

Looks like both to me from my read.

Oh so I'm both defending him an "awful lot" and ignoring him? That sure seems like a consistent stance you've got behind your one-liner.

[Gait]

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 06:50 PM, said:

What is wrong with my current formatting. I am currently desktop (and have been for the last several hours).

I find that nesting colours into quotes gets hard to keep track of quite quickly. Like if there's a couple of back and forth exchanges it becomes a total rainbow mess.