[Gamelon]

Venesara, on 20 August 2019 - 03:45 AM, said:

Prazec Goul, on 14 August 2019 - 10:17 PM, said:

After reading up I think Rikkter would be a good vote. I've got good vibes from Ven, Sheltatha, Gait and Barghast for different reasons. I'll explain further tomorrow. Bad vibes from Kilava, Rikkter, Galayn Lord and Gamelon.

Okay to expand on that, I don't like Kilavas defense of Rikkter at all but maybe they've muddied things on purpose. All this arguing on thread back and forth yet, even though present, it feels like Gamelon and Galayn Lord didn't join in. Killers letting us argue amongst ourselves?

Like I said I'll read up and try to expand my thoughts further tomorrow.

There is the quote I was looking for. We all hated on this post originally but if reveal is true then something is going on. In particular I agree about Gamelon remaining distant; he also uses it later to accuse PG of being a killer in his sarcastic tone.

going to jump ahead --

Gamelon, on 19 August 2019 - 04:40 PM, said:

And to just add a bit on Sheltatha, as that already seems to be the way the thread is going: I don't know. They could very easily turn out to be scum, and I wouldn't be surprised, but I don't know if there's one thing I could currently point to as definitive in the way that Prazec seems convinced. That's my hot take for now.

Gamelon, on 19 August 2019 - 04:47 PM, said:

Imagine if Gait was lynched before showing up and then turned out to be a killer. How amazing would that have looked for Rikkter? Enough to allow them to coast through the rest of the game?
Edit: Added question mark

Rikkter, on 19 August 2019 - 11:50 PM, said:

Gamelon, on 19 August 2019 - 04:47 PM, said:

Imagine if Gait was lynched before showing up and then turned out to be a killer. How amazing would that have looked for Rikkter? Enough to allow them to coast through the rest of the game?
Edit: Added question mark

Even I am not that brilliant dude. My reasoning was always better a lynch than a modkill, which I gave up on once PS told us he had subs in the wings.

Wow this reads like killers just stroking dicks on thread.

After the suspicion of Rikkter is remembered, Gamelon brushes it off and gives him a pat on the back. We all know you get a free pass if you escape a D1 lynch like this. But you're keeping it in our heads - we tried before and failed, not again!!

Killer 1: Hey, remember how we've been distancing and saying killers would distance?

Killer 2: Yeah yeah.

Killer 1: OK now...let's do the opposite!


But this post is kind of a big deal for me. I see Gamelon/Rikkter - Rikkter dominates thread on d1 while everything stalls.... Gamelon stays distant on d1, drive-by vote - the only thing he stops to do is defend Rikkter.

Gamelon, on 15 August 2019 - 09:09 AM, said:

The sarcasm holds a serious and valid point, which you interestingly totally skip over and latch only on to the bit about Gait. Noted, thanks Venesara.

As for the Rikkter case, it feels like all of you (including Rikkter) are blowing it out of proportion. I’ve read over it and I just don’t see why you are getting so excited.

No vote and an empty but good looking defense of Rikkter...

For now I will

Vote Gamelon

Largely because of the above, but Gam's voting has been seriously off too.

I would vote Rikkter but he is polarizing and I don't know if we have the votes (or I'd switch). I voted Gam because he is slowly but surely trying to steer us away from voting Rikkter. Rikkter has calmed down considerably and that might be enough to escape the lynch.

Also Gamelon is just clearly scum.

Rereading through this actually made me laugh out loud. In the middle of the night. You forget that I also followed my partner Rikkter on to an absent Gait vote on day 1

[Gamelon]

Haha, and reading through I see that this is actually the second time I mentioned Kilava’s vote on Barghast as having dodgy reasoning and mealy justification. It’s been a long day. But I guess at least I agree with myself

[Gamelon]

Gamelon, on 20 August 2019 - 09:19 AM, said:

Prazec Goul, on 20 August 2019 - 08:14 AM, said:

Venesara, on 20 August 2019 - 02:06 AM, said:

Path-Shaper, on 13 August 2019 - 12:49 AM, said:

Motato? Is that supposed to be a tomato? Or a potato? Who the fuck knows?

Oh right, Pete knows. But who the fuck cares?

You do. But when you don't even know what you're yourself, how can you tell who the fuck is Peat?

It is Day 1. The clock has been frozen with 36 Hours and 00 Minutes remaining.

The opening is weird. There is no more RP since this. Didn't GP claim to have "tomato" instead of the RI "motato"? This would have to be really clever now to pull a no-kill fake reveal and support it by claiming "tomato" - I can see this wording from P-S as a clue to roled town, but it's a stretch. At the same time GP didn't make a big deal out of it, meaning if he wasn't paying attention to the opening, it's probably from his PM.

Then Pete/Peat. Names of the killers? I have nothing on this. The only reason I think this is even worth mentioning is GP's reveal.

I did have to go back and read OP as I never do. Only a 10 player game, so I doubt more than one role, but Sheltatha is now hinting at one. If that was the cased then there has to be symp otherwise town are over powered.




Ignoring mechanics a second, I cannot get to grips with everyone pointing fingers everywhere, if we are to lynch then we need some common ground. I understand killers will be distancing and trying to muddy waters as much as possible.




Look at the back and forth with Barghast and Sheltatha, but now Kilava is Barghast top choice even though he is voting Sheltatha, Gamelon is avoiding both players and looking at Gait and Rikkter, Rikkter wants to lynch the healer even though he thinks I am going to die at night, theirs no coherence. The thread has exploded multiple ways.

So you missed the post right above this where I said Gait, Kilava or Barghast for me today?

I don’t really understand what Sheltatha is saying about telling us what they are before they die. If it is a role reveal then they should totally be lynched to confirm, because no way there are two town roles in this game. If it turns out they’re telling the truth then Prazec is next.

Hmm I may have a point.

[Gamelon]

Gait, on 20 August 2019 - 12:50 PM, said:

Barg if you want vote analysis, how's this:

Currently you have two votes and Shel has three. Gamelon could have put you at parity with Shel. You have been named one of Gamelon's main three suspects. So why is he instead dropping his vote on someone with zero votes with three hours left in the day?

This absolutely stinks.

Remove vote

And yet turns out I was right not to Actually I had no idea what the vote numbers were, I was just focusing on my own thoughts.

[Gamelon]

Barghast, on 20 August 2019 - 03:18 PM, said:

This is a (long) sidenote. I said yesterday I will try to go over Gait's messages for peace of mind because it bothers me how little scrutiny they received so far. Not hugely relevant at the moment, because as things stand we only have time to go for me or Gamelon, but with the looming timeout I'd rather post it in case I'm not around for D4.

D1
Gait is the last person to check in. This leads to the Rikkter train but Gait does not immediately jump on board. They counter-vote Gamelon for a drive-by vote and it's hard to argue with the reason. Plenty of people have expressed doubts about Gam's coasting.
At the end of the day Gait x-posts with me and puts Rikkter at L-2.

Gait also does a bit of prodding and poking does a little bit of low-key defending of Sehltatha:

Gait, on 14 August 2019 - 07:15 PM, said:

I'm curious as to why Shelly moreso than Ven, and your general thoughts on Ven's post.

Gait, on 14 August 2019 - 09:37 PM, said:

My initial feeling was that Shel's vote was a "poke and see what happens" type thing and I still buy that. Regarding my vote on Gamelon, the very easy "why not" bandwagon vote rubbed me the wrong way.

Rikkter's reaction has been rather OMGUS and I'm happy voting there.

Remove vote
Vote Rikkter

Barg's voting behaviour is also somewhat catching my attention at the moment. He didn't vote Rikkter earlier but he's now dropping a vote on Kilava, someone who currently has zero votes, with so little time remaining. I'm not sure what to make of Kilava but it's not generally the ideal time for a new train...

D2

Gait starts the LG train. In the moment, I thought they were making a good point:

Gait, on 14 August 2019 - 11:53 PM, said:

Reading back over it however, I am going to

Vote Galayn Lord

I had overlooked it until PG pointed it out but go look at the timing of GL's comment and what is going on around it. The few posts immediately before GL's comment include Shel's vote on Rikkter, Rikkter's reaction, Barghast weighing in, Ven's vote on Rikkter, and a couple of minutes after his post we get Rikkter's return vote on Shel... he's right there and he doesn't manage to comment on any of that? Even his response to me just makes some point about CFs rather than talking about, say, my vote. I think that deserves scrutiny.

On a re-read, however, it does look like a bit of a pattern. Gait picks on a potential coaster again and starts to build a train on them. If Gait is a killer then they are just picking easy targets - it's hard to argue against lynching a coaster. And it's worked excellently for Gait so far: like I said earlier, they have received close to no scrutiny at all in the game so far.

Then there's a bit of re-applied pressure to Gamelon:

Gait, on 15 August 2019 - 11:33 AM, said:

I see Gamelon is also playing the OMGUS game.

All in all, Gait looks happy to keep putting pressure on coasters. They eventually take down and re-apply their vote on Galayn. It was covered in some previous discussion. I think it was a bad move but Gait's reasoning doesn't read to me as scummy.

D3

Gait opens D3 with a vote on Prazec. It was already after Prazec has been called out for throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. The pattern continues - another day, another attempt at Gait to build momentum for an easy lynch. This time it's ruined by Prazec's reveal, so Gait quickly retracts their vote.

From there, they share a lot of observations and are engaged and producitve on thread. They vote for Sheltatha and then switch to me because they say I'm railroading.

What bothers me here is that Gait is very reluctant to look at lynch trains. They are on D1 and D2 trains so that could be why they're waving it away as a valid tactic.

To sum up:
Gait's playstyle is very clean. It's hard to poke holes in any individual case they made. They've been active on thread and shared some astute observations. But on a re-read, it shows they've been following a clear pattern every day: identify an easy target for town to lynch but don't push too hard. They're laying groundwork for trains without being too focused on anyone in partiular. This has been repeating every day and strikes me as odd.

I think this analysis of Gait deserves highlighting. It doesn’t quite help clear the whole picture for me, however, as I’ve also see strong breakdowns and scum indications for both Sheltatha and Kilava too, and obviously they can’t all be right.

But suffice to say at this point I am discounting Rikkter. Their play has been maverick, and at times obtuse and unhelpful in a very obvious manner. This isn’t someone who is being careful.

[Gamelon]

Sheltatha Lore, on 20 August 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:

I guess I have to commit. I figured if I woke up dead you all would know anyway and no one was talking about it, so I just let it slide.

To start with, that potato line makes you legit. That is the key word for a roled town, so yes Ven, you and I are innocent in my mind.

The reason there are 2 roles is I am a guard. I can do nothing until one of the paired scum are dead.

The middle paragraph: I’m not quite understanding it. Who are you talking to when you say ‘makes you legit’? What potato line?

[Sheltatha Lore]

Gamelon, on 21 August 2019 - 12:59 AM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 20 August 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:

I guess I have to commit. I figured if I woke up dead you all would know anyway and no one was talking about it, so I just let it slide.

To start with, that potato line makes you legit. That is the key word for a roled town, so yes Ven, you and I are innocent in my mind.

The reason there are 2 roles is I am a guard. I can do nothing until one of the paired scum are dead.

The middle paragraph: I’m not quite understanding it. Who are you talking to when you say ‘makes you legit’? What potato line?

See the CF for PG. He called himself a potato when revealing. I obviously recognized it from my own role description.

[Gamelon]

Sheltatha Lore, on 20 August 2019 - 05:48 PM, said:

Try to suss out my reasoning all you like. When threatened with a very real chance of being lynched, I capitulated throwing out a hint of being roled to see if that would alter the course. When it didn't, I decided to let it be and make sure I defended my case to the end so that my most likely scum candidate would be taken seriously (I always have trouble convincing people not to ignore the "good townies" as possible scum). In the end, I revealed fully, even though I was more secure, because I saw a very real opportunity to coordinate with PG to cinch the game. I thought with one scum down, I would at least know who I guarded and if that failed I would know the identity of another fellow townie. I figured if scum were blocked, either the heal worked or I succeeded in guarding and we could work backwards from there, cock blocking scum each step of the way.

This all fell apart when I was dead wrong about Barg (who I was convinced was a stellar "townie" scum). That was my fuckup and I own it.

Regardless, you have Ven as known town. You can quibble over me all you like, but you do have 2 scum in the game still, so I would suggest we go after someone who is not possibly roled (and can save a neck tonight if we nail scum in a lynch). I don't care what you think of me. But at least approach this logically as D-Day.

I got to say, I quite like this. This is a pretty strong counter-argument to Gait’s own strong accusation. Although...it does rely on us believing that you were utterly convinced that Barghast was scum. And I don’t really recall you doing all you could to push that - after voting for Barg you kind of disappeared till your revea, except to say you weren’t switching votes.

[Gamelon]

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 01:10 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 21 August 2019 - 12:59 AM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 20 August 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:

I guess I have to commit. I figured if I woke up dead you all would know anyway and no one was talking about it, so I just let it slide.

To start with, that potato line makes you legit. That is the key word for a roled town, so yes Ven, you and I are innocent in my mind.

The reason there are 2 roles is I am a guard. I can do nothing until one of the paired scum are dead.

The middle paragraph: I’m not quite understanding it. Who are you talking to when you say ‘makes you legit’? What potato line?

See the CF for PG. He called himself a potato when revealing. I obviously recognized it from my own role description.

No he didn’t. He called himself a tomato.

[Gamelon]

Sheltatha Lore, on 20 August 2019 - 09:59 PM, said:

Oh, don't mistake my not caring if I got lynched as not caring who got lynched. Fine distinction. I stuck to my guns on Barg because in my experience, the best town players are scum (often helped by knowing the layout of the game, who is scum who is not). I gambled everything on that case. And it is true I look scummy and low post because of a roled status and am very aware of that self made perception. Not much I can do about it now and I did what I thought I could when playing in earlier days.

So now, flub ups make it worse for me, and this is dday so all important. Hence my abashed play and comments.

Well hey, you’ve all at various points called my play stupid or shit, so I must be inno then!

[Gamelon]

Ok, who would like to convince me to not discount Rikkter? And I would like to hear from Rikkter today. For someone who doesn’t believe in the existence of town roles you haven’t said much about Sheltatha’s reveal.


Failing anything more on Rikkter, I have a choice of three in front of me. There seems to be a clear divide between Gait and Sheltatha, one of them is scum and the other is not. Or they’re putting on a fantastic act on d-day (which also risks complicating things for scum, so it seems unlikely, though it’s almost certainly what I would try and do ).

And then there is Kilava, who has, to my mind, contributed little. They’ve never pushed, except when pushed themselves, and even then they’ve always made a point of having their vote available for a switch. The closest they’ve had to an argy-bargy with our surviving cadre is a day 1 argument with Sheltatha over Rikkter’s vote on Gait, which was summarily dropped; and more recently with me, but with lots of smiley faces and a seeming reluctance to push their head above the parapet and get into a tussle.

Gait and Kilava have never had much interaction or much to say about each other (Gait has on occasion named Kilava as someone to watch, but no more than that), and I can see that being a partnership. Kilava and Sheltatha could also be a thing, if we see the lame day 1 argument as distancing (in the end Shel votes for Rikkter, and while Kilava does vote for Shel their reasoning talks more about Barghast than Shel, and then they try to switch to Rikkter just after timeout).

I will try to check in during the day tomorrow but more than likely I’m just going to be at the beach (woe is me). I won’t vote now because I would like to know what you all have to say first, but I think it’s clear which way I’m leaning. To be honest I didn’t think I’d be doing any of this tonight but I felt guilty about not contributing anything at this endgame juncture. Plus it’s been an interesting game!

And I would very much like some further elaboration on the tomato/potato thing from Sheltatha.

[Kilava]

Gamelon, on 21 August 2019 - 01:55 AM, said:

but I think it’s clear which way I’m leaning.

Actually no it's not clear which way you're leaning. You might want to clarify that part, all you've said for sure is that you haven't any conclusive arguments. All I see is a lot of rambling with no conclusions whatsoever. You have to make a choice - actually voting would be a good start and show us you're being sincere.

[Venesara]

Gamelon, on 21 August 2019 - 01:17 AM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 21 August 2019 - 01:10 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 21 August 2019 - 12:59 AM, said:

Sheltatha Lore, on 20 August 2019 - 03:54 PM, said:

I guess I have to commit. I figured if I woke up dead you all would know anyway and no one was talking about it, so I just let it slide.

To start with, that potato line makes you legit. That is the key word for a roled town, so yes Ven, you and I are innocent in my mind.

The reason there are 2 roles is I am a guard. I can do nothing until one of the paired scum are dead.

The middle paragraph: I’m not quite understanding it. Who are you talking to when you say ‘makes you legit’? What potato line?

See the CF for PG. He called himself a potato when revealing. I obviously recognized it from my own role description.

No he didn’t. He called himself a tomato.

I told you fuckers they were all roles!

[Venesara]

How much does this slip clear Shel? Could he have planted that line so far back? My read here is genuine play from Shel, very interestingggg...

[Gamelon]

Kilava, on 21 August 2019 - 02:05 AM, said:

Gamelon, on 21 August 2019 - 01:55 AM, said:

but I think it’s clear which way I’m leaning.

Actually no it's not clear which way you're leaning. You might want to clarify that part, all you've said for sure is that you haven't any conclusive arguments. All I see is a lot of rambling with no conclusions whatsoever. You have to make a choice - actually voting would be a good start and show us you're being sincere.

Another odd post - why try and goad me into a vote before everyone speaks and we try and reach some kind of consensus on d-day?

And it’s pretty clear I’m leaning toward you.

[Gamelon]

Venesara, on 21 August 2019 - 02:31 AM, said:

How much does this slip clear Shel? Could he have planted that line so far back? My read here is genuine play from Shel, very interestingggg...

It’s what I was thinking too. Like, ‘ooh, Shel’s slipped up! But...in a good way?!’ But I did want them to comment further before saying anything, but you kind of jumped past that now.

[Venesara]

It was going to come out anyway, might as well use as much information as we can. Also I don't really see what we get out of Shel by sitting around not talking until he comments on whatever we want him to comment on...

[Venesara]

Also I picked up on Shel's potato mistake as soon as he made it. It was all the pronouns. I couldn't decide if he had followed my logic back to the OP or he was being honest. I leaned toward the latter but damn I kept this off thread forevvvvver until it came up on its own. So to me that feels like vindication, I see why you would want to be more circumspect though.

[Venesara]

I would also argue that the way Shel said it just now is more important than how he would have reacted.

[Gait]

Venesara, on 21 August 2019 - 02:31 AM, said:

How much does this slip clear Shel? Could he have planted that line so far back?

I didn't really realise that people hadn't picked that up, I assumed it was part of the initial reveal as a given tbh. As for planting it, when you have people speculating openly about the role names and PG saying things like this then personally I don't find it unlikely.

Prazec Goul, on 19 August 2019 - 10:30 AM, said:

Quick question whilst catching up, has anyone referred to themselves as something different than Motato? Cause I am not Motato, I am Tomato. Even tongue in cheek or something.