[Pherikus Nul]

In the Crippled God, we find out that the ancient White Face Barghast painted their faces white in a sort of honour of the Forkrul Assail. We also know from Memories of Ice that Capustan is where the ancient histories of the White Face Barghast on Genebakis were stored along with their ships. We also know that the cabal that controlled Capustan, the Masked Council, each called themselves Rath'[god name]. Moreover, we find out through Olar Ethil (who is notoriously untrustworthy) that the Forkrul Assail would call her Rath Evain.

Is it possible that Capustan started as a sort of shrine to the Forkrul Assail by the Barghast?

Edit:

Bonus trivial fact: There's a road in the Greater Toronto Area called Rathburn. With the Bloor Sea (Bloor Street being another famous GTA roadway), I wonder if that is where ICE and SE got the Rath prefix from, lol. Perhaps one of them had some adventures in Toronto/Mississauga.

This post has been edited by Pherikus Nul: 17 May 2019 - 09:22 PM

[ArchieVist]

There's also Jelarkan's Palace and the keep occupied by the Grey Swords, ancient buildings which don't appear to be of human origin.

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The only unknowns in Itkovian's scenario were the old keep that the Grey Swords now occupied, and Jelarkan's Palace. The old keep had been built before the coming of both the Capan and the Daru, by unknown hands, and it had been constructed almost in the shadow of the palace.
Jelarkan's fortress was a structure unlike anything Itkovian had ever seen before. It predated all else, its severe architecture throughly alien and strangely unwelcoming.

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And that palace was not raised by human hands, most certainly not. I'd swear that on Fener's bristly hump.

[Pherikus Nul]

ArchieVist, on 17 May 2019 - 08:43 PM, said:

There's also Jelarkan's Palace and the keep occupied by the Grey Swords, ancient buildings which don't appear to be of human origin.

Quote

The only unknowns in Itkovian's scenario were the old keep that the Grey Swords now occupied, and Jelarkan's Palace. The old keep had been built before the coming of both the Capan and the Daru, by unknown hands, and it had been constructed almost in the shadow of the palace.
Jelarkan's fortress was a structure unlike anything Itkovian had ever seen before. It predated all else, its severe architecture throughly alien and strangely unwelcoming.

Quote

And that palace was not raised by human hands, most certainly not. I'd swear that on Fener's bristly hump.

Oooo good point, I think we've stumbled upon something here.

[D'rek]

Veeeery interesting idea. I'd not noticed the Rath Evain and Rath'___ connection before. I think the idea has a lot of merit.

[nacht]

Great Catch.The battle between the K'Chain and Assail is mentioned in the Crippled God

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The K'Chain Che'Malle nests began to fall one by one, until th elast surviving Matron, in her desperation, opened a portal to the heart of chaos and set her back against it, hiding its presence from the advancing Assail. And when at last she stood facing them, when the tortured god's power rushed to annihilate her and all her kind, she surrendered her life, and the gate, which she had sealed with her own body, her own life force, opened. To devour the Assail god's soul.

He was too wounded to resist. What remained of him, in this realm, was shattered, mindless and lost.' Her eyes glittered. 'You have seen the Glass Desert. That is where all that remains of that god now lives. If one would call it a life.'

'What happened to the Assail, Kalyth?'

The woman shrugged. "Their power spent, they were broken. Though they blamed the Matron for the loss of their god, it was by their judgement that he was wielded as would one wield a weapon, a thing to be used, a thing not worthy of anything else. In any case, they had not the strength to exterminate the K'Chain Che'Malle. But the truth was the war had destroyed both races, and when other races appeared through the cracks of chaos, -- which could now reach this and every realm -- neither could stop the invasions. More wars, defeats, betrayals, until the age itself crumbled and was no more.'

If this rent is the rent of Chaos in Morn. Makes sense that Capustan was the base for the Assail. Just like Envy and her troupe travelled from Morn to Capustan. and explains the presence of scores of undead K'Chain Chemalle near Capustan.

[Pherikus Nul]

nacht, on 18 May 2019 - 08:50 PM, said:

Great Catch.The battle between the K'Chain and Assail is mentioned in the Crippled God

Quote

The K'Chain Che'Malle nests began to fall one by one, until th elast surviving Matron, in her desperation, opened a portal to the heart of chaos and set her back against it, hiding its presence from the advancing Assail. And when at last she stood facing them, when the tortured god's power rushed to annihilate her and all her kind, she surrendered her life, and the gate, which she had sealed with her own body, her own life force, opened. To devour the Assail god's soul.

He was too wounded to resist. What remained of him, in this realm, was shattered, mindless and lost.' Her eyes glittered. 'You have seen the Glass Desert. That is where all that remains of that god now lives. If one would call it a life.'

'What happened to the Assail, Kalyth?'

The woman shrugged. "Their power spent, they were broken. Though they blamed the Matron for the loss of their god, it was by their judgement that he was wielded as would one wield a weapon, a thing to be used, a thing not worthy of anything else. In any case, they had not the strength to exterminate the K'Chain Che'Malle. But the truth was the war had destroyed both races, and when other races appeared through the cracks of chaos, -- which could now reach this and every realm -- neither could stop the invasions. More wars, defeats, betrayals, until the age itself crumbled and was no more.'

If this rent is the rent of Chaos in Morn. Makes sense that Capustan was the base for the Assail. Just like Envy and her troupe travelled from Morn to Capustan. and explains the presence of scores of undead K'Chain Chemalle near Capustan.

Would just like to mention that the Envy party didn't go to Capustan but to Coral. They did have Envy visit Callows, or what was left of it after the Edur tourists were done with it, to speak with K'rul. Callows also happened to be the home of the Thousand Sects of D'rek, which I find curious but that's because I have a feeling that D'rek has some extra connections to the Forkrul Assail than just the end of TCG. I will say, though, that both Morn and the Glass Desert had volcanic-like glass surrounding them.

Doesn't Kallor, who is another rather untrustworthy narrator, mention that the rent was due to a Nah'ruk rebellion? Is this just characters that have lived over millenia forgetting details to the sands of time? Or is there a connection between the Nah'ruk rebelling and the Forkrul Assail attacking the Matron? I also should probably re-read the Kilmandaros prologue scenes from Reaper's Gale and beyond. She walks through a rent between Kurald Emurlahn and the K'Chain Che'Malle demesne (which is likely Letheras or just north of Letheras with the placement of the Azath, Icarium's machine, Gothos' ritual, etc.) and I wonder if there are any clues in there.

That prologue scene is also the one where they have Kilmandaros describe the nature of dragon's blood dripping through worlds and solidifying as well as having souls/ghosts converging toward the dragon blood. I wonder if this has any connection to Sukul Ankhadu's description of Hood's Realm as Festal'Rythan, which is apparently Eleint for Layers of the Dead. I also find that Rythan is similar the Rynthan, the Forkrul Assail name of the God of Justice from the Just Wars, according to Beak. The same God that the Tiste Liosan call Serkanos. It's also similar to Ruthan, Arathan, the Rath prefix, and Artanthos. *tinfoil*

[Gorefest]

I don't think either that the Rent at Morn is the same one as was caused by the K'Chain/Forkrul war. Kallor is quite specific that it was caused by the Che'malle - Nah'ruk war. We see gates being opened across time and space in the Malazan universe a fair bit, so just because they mention a Gate at Morn and a Gate being opened in the (now) Glass Desert, doesn't mean that these are the same Gate.

[Pherikus Nul]

Gorefest, on 21 May 2019 - 12:00 PM, said:

I don't think either that the Rent at Morn is the same one as was caused by the K'Chain/Forkrul war. Kallor is quite specific that it was caused by the Che'malle - Nah'ruk war. We see gates being opened across time and space in the Malazan universe a fair bit, so just because they mention a Gate at Morn and a Gate being opened in the (now) Glass Desert, doesn't mean that these are the same Gate.

I think both Kalyth and Kallor are correct:

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If this had been the extent of the redress, Equity would have been content. Things could be made viable, a balance could be achieved, and perhaps even a new god would arise, born of sober faith in reality and its very real limitations, born of honest humility and the desire for peace. A faith to spread across the world, adjudicated by the Pures and then the Watered.

If not for the Heart, if not for that fist of torment dredged up from the depths of the bay. All that power, so raw, so alien, so perfect in its denial. Our god was slain, but we had already found a path to vengeance – the Nah'ruk, who had broken their chains and now thirsted for the blood of their masters. So much was already within our reach.

But for the Heart, so firing Reverence, Serenity and the other elders, so poisoning their souls. No balance could be perfect – we all knew that – but now a new solution burned bright, so bright it blinded them to all else. The Gate, wrested away from the K'Chain Che'Malle, cleansed of that foul, ancient curse. Akhrast Korvalain, returned once more to the Forkrul Assail, and from that gate – from the power of the Heart – we could resurrect our god.

------ Chapter 12, The Crippled God

This is Assail saying that they had sent the Nah'Ruk or incited their rebellion in retribution for the Matron's sacrifice that destroyed the FA god of justice.

Moreover, the quote from Kalyth is extended to describe the fact that the passing of knowledge from Matron to Matron is pretty reliable, though Kalyth being a human can leave some room for error. In fact, I think Kallor's bit about the Nah'ruk vs. Che'malle is a confirmation of Kalyth's and the Assail's version of events and that Morn is in fact the other side of the Rent from the Glass Desert. Perhaps not the same rent, but the sealed rent in the Glass Desert lead to chaos and exited out in Morn on Genabakis.