[Abyss]

Ok, you all know the drill... my thread, to where my read is at. Want to discuss something later or other, start your own thread or wait.
Also, nachos. I love nachos. But they have to be spicy. And have meat on them. None of this cheese and veg nonsense...


Prologue - Ch 3ish.

Ahh, Li Heng. Again. I hope this is going somewhere interesting. I kind of feel like Li Heng as a storyline has been played out between RCG and LAMENT. Sure it's a kick to see Silk and Lis again, but that scene felt a little too shallow settuppy. 'A storm is coming mwahaahahaaa wheeze fuck i'm an old witch heeeee'.

Hee, Surly and Dancer 'ambushing' Kel ... funny. Kel turning the ambush into a strategy session and blowing Surly's mind.... hysterical.


I suspect Kel's whole 'looking older' thing is just a ploy for respect, but i'd like to read the explanation the character gives.

You can already see the division between Kel/Dancer's goals and Surly's starting to develop. It's interesting that ICE is going with it this early in the wider ME storyline. I like how Kel n Dancer are doing little side quests and its pissing Surly off.

Orjin.... i'm getting a Greymane vibe, but i don't actually think that's him. I like his little inner circle of mercs. Obvious, maybe too obvious, where the 'hey where did the Talian reserves go, not in the forest, surely' thing was going. Seems like a good siege story in the making.

Gregar and Haraj... i was thiking Gregar as pre-CGuard Blues... the warren and early sword skills seem right, but one of the actual Guard who rescued them from the Gris soldiers seemed more like Blues.

Hi Tayschrenn! Hi Calot! Hi Hairlock! ...you're a dick... Hi Nightchill! ...oh shit... Nightchill and Tays chat was actually very interesting. So much subtext there on both parts. Stil thinking the Chained God is the taint in the Cult of D'rek. I like Tays' interaction with Surly too... more respectful, reflects their relationship when GotM starts.


Nedurian prompting Dassem to start training soldiers... interesting. But the real interesting bit there was Hood cultists starting to worship Shadow as well.


...wait... Talian Iron Legion breaks the Purge forces in Orjin's segment.... Nedurian mentions the Iron Legion was broken by the Untans... oh, i see, Nedurian was Talian 'Old Guard'...




SO fun to be back in this world.

[Abyss]

Ch 3-4-5ish...

I like that ICE gave Kel such an 'ordinary' origin. Normal geeky kid, doesn't play rough like the others, string of bad homes, eventually comes into his own.

Also liked Kel and Dancer bonding over that.

Kel's mage kids... still awesome. I love the entire concept of his having rescued them, set them to mining gems, and now 'ok, take the gems and go make me a spy network... here's your own personal warren to work with'.

And so very very cool to see the beginnings of the Talon. Again, it's a bunch of kids forced to grow up too quick. Them focusing on Dancer made sense. Also kind of sets the basis for the more cultish group we see purged in NoK.


Hi Baudin! (the elder)


Oh gods, we're going back to Li Heng again, aren't we...


Also fun contrast with the hints from Nedurian at Surly still building her Claw from the recruits.


Am liking these scenes of Nedurian working to build the Malazan army squad mage cadres. By GotM the cadres are mostly wiped out and just a reference, then we see them sort of rebuilt in the Bonehunters squads. It's a nice piece of the story to read.

Thistle... the name rings a bell...


Nom Purge about to wipe out Quon Tali... hee... someone tell Orjin that.


Gregar and Harry really just can't catch a break.

[Abyss]

Solid run last night, Ch 5-12... sleep is overrated, caffeine is all...


Hi ShimmerIko!

Did ICE seriously just make a 'resting bitchface' joke? Seriously?

Terel... i don't care how many uber-witches you recruit, you are dead dead dead meat.

oh HI Heboric!!!! ...geez... no wonder the cult tossed him out on his ass...

Um, Heboric, maybe hitting on the lady with the wasting disease is a bad idea when you're on your way to chat with Poliel? ...just say...yep, that's about what i expected. Ew.

Oh Hi Bird-girl from LAMENT! In Heng. Where Heboric is supposed to end up. And Kel says he wants to go back to. Again. Sigh. Also, Silk is a dick.

Ok... the scene at the table when the Old Guard are assigning ranks and titles is hysterical. Urko trying to foist the most pretentious title possible on Cartheron is pure gold.

Heh... the entire raid is massive evidence of Surly's awesomeness. And fascinating that now the Malazan Empire is her focus, moreso than Nap.

Also liked the two brief scenes where the marines and mage Hyacinth sort their shit out. Nedurian's sequences are really kind of great for little insights into the evolution of the Malazan forces.

I love the fact that Kel basically let WItch Jardine take him down to find out what she knew about the Imass. Also, that Tays had to keep stopping Dancer from saving him. Nice touch.
There is also something very cool about this notion that Kel n Dancer are now racing the Witch to get to the Imass first.

Gregar unloads a can of whupass on the Grissies! Wheee!

Greg and Harry's interview/hazing for the Crimson Guard was a great sequence.

'Fingers'.... hell of a typo, that. Unless it wasn't and Greg just gave Harrry that nickname at that moment for the belt thing with Petra.

Orjin = Greymane. Zero surprise, but well handled. Wonder if we'll see him join the Malazan army by the end. I liked his battle sequences, particularly the 'run' to break through the line of forces hunting them.

[No One]

Abyss, on 01 March 2019 - 06:53 PM, said:

Solid run last night, Ch 5-12... sleep is overrated, caffeine is all...


Hi ShimmerIko!

Did ICE seriously just make a 'resting bitchface' joke? Seriously?

Terel... i don't care how many uber-witches you recruit, you are dead dead dead meat.

oh HI Heboric!!!! ...geez... no wonder the cult tossed him out on his ass...

Um, Heboric, maybe hitting on the lady with the wasting disease is a bad idea when you're on your way to chat with Poliel? ...just say...yep, that's about what i expected. Ew.

Oh Hi Bird-girl from LAMENT! In Heng. Where Heboric is supposed to end up. And Kel says he wants to go back to. Again. Sigh. Also, Silk is a dick.

Ok... the scene at the table when the Old Guard are assigning ranks and titles is hysterical. Urko trying to foist the most pretentious title possible on Cartheron is pure gold.

Heh... the entire raid is massive evidence of Surly's awesomeness. And fascinating that now the Malazan Empire is her focus, moreso than Nap.

Also liked the two brief scenes where the marines and mage Hyacinth sort their shit out. Nedurian's sequences are really kind of great for little insights into the evolution of the Malazan forces.

I love the fact that Kel basically let WItch Jardine take him down to find out what she knew about the Imass. Also, that Tays had to keep stopping Dancer from saving him. Nice touch.
There is also something very cool about this notion that Kel n Dancer are now racing the Witch to get to the Imass first.

Gregar unloads a can of whupass on the Grissies! Wheee!

Greg and Harry's interview/hazing for the Crimson Guard was a great sequence.

'Fingers'.... hell of a typo, that. Unless it wasn't and Greg just gave Harrry that nickname at that moment for the belt thing with Petra.

Orjin = Greymane. Zero surprise, but well handled. Wonder if we'll see him join the Malazan army by the end. I liked his battle sequences, particularly the 'run' to break through the line of forces hunting them.

Greymane's given name was in Stonewielder. It wasn't meant to be a reveal at all here.

[Abyss]

Utterly forgot that but makes sense, given SW was ‘his’ book.

[Abyss]

Ch 12 - 16


Wow Greymane n co are just getting screwed.


Interesting sequence for Bird Girl. Rather enjoyed that.


Hi Possum! ...y'know that explains a few things from ASSAIL.


Kel n Dancer's race to the First Throne was really well done. I enjoyed it... the boat journey, Jardine's 'triumph'...
Hi Tool!!!,
...the side trip to meet the CG, and Nightchill's reaction.... all very much Malazan.


Liked the bit w the twins working for Kel. Seems that's how Greymane n co will be brought into the Malazan army.


Love that Urko just decided his command is the Seventh Army bcs it's his favorite number.

Hi Ryllandaras! ...hey, waitasec... wtf....?

[Speedy]

Abyss, on 27 February 2019 - 03:21 PM, said:

Gregar and Haraj... i was thiking Gregar as pre-CGuard Blues... the warren and early sword skills seem right, but one of the actual Guard who rescued them from the Gris soldiers seemed more like Blues.

I'm quite sure that Haraj is Fingers. Gregar Bluenth really hints to be a Blues, but Blues is Napan, that still might not mean anything, I dont think that his skin tone was really mentioned, same as Iko. All that first fight with him using hands kinda hinted for me and I really wished him to be Iron Bars, but if I remember correctly Iron Bars isnt a talent.

This post has been edited by Speedy: 04 March 2019 - 01:30 PM

[Abyss]

16-19...

Itko Kan taking a shot at Choss... huh.

Hi Twist! ...so angry... liked the little insights into the Moranth...


Hi Crippled God!!! ....you're already a dickhead....


Ah, Kellanved re Heng... 'They have it coming'. ...and then he gives Surly a perfectly rational strategic reason for invading Cawn.


Bird-girl meeting the CGuard, neat. The Guard putting her under house arrest because she's too something something to allow to leave, less neat. I hope this going somewhere.

Iko/Shimmer getting into a drunken bar brawl... amusing.
Getting a job as a brothel guard... ok, sure, why not.
Pining over the little prince all alone in the castle... meh.
Her on-the-job disguise being a Seguleh... VERY funny.

Urko dragooning Cartheron... hee.

Surly already has Claw infiltrating entire the Malazan system, but Dancer already has Talon infiltrating the Claw... gee, can't imagine why this ever went utterly sideways (to be clear, i like how this development happened early... it changes the concept of the Empire through its early years to know it was already rife with battling agendas, yet STILL managed to be as effective as it was).

I am very curious whether the 'big finish' is going to be Heng, or rescuing Greymane and co.

[Abyss]

,,,aaaaaaand JUST FINISHED.

More to come, but SPOILERS ARE GO.

[Abyss]

19 - end!


Dancer and Kel - enjoyed the sheer upheaval of their return and how Kel shifts from questing sorceror to mad Emperor (and damn that was funny... except for Heboric... actually, that was funny too)... and in the end back to questing sorceror.

I absolutely love that the entire 'Kellanved sics the vicious Tlan Imass army on Lee Heng' thing amounted 'hey guyssssss.... i think there's a JAGHUT in there'!' and the Tlan Imass' naturally pissy attitude towards anyone who pretends to be a god.

Almost sorry we didn't get to see Tool and Dancer throw down.

Silk - sucker. Can guess how he ends up in Storos' squad by RCG.

Smoky and Mara - off to join the Guard!

Greg and Harry - join the Guard! ...just as Skinner shows up with 400 nasty mercs. Interesting, because when we see the Guard again, timeline wise, they're down to the core group that become the Avowed, Korian is dead, so are a bunch of the names we see in this book.

Nedurian - enjoyed his view of the raid on Cawn. Would have liked to see more of him during Heng.

Iko/Shimmer - her badass moments during the Iko Kan coup were suitably badass, but wow that went badly for her at the end. I remain curious how she ends up with the Guard(!).

Alura Bird Lady - meh. Travelogue. She started out with some mission to return her biggest bird home, forgot about that, became a Jheck High priestess something something. Meh. I enjoyed the descriptions of her use of the Beast Hold, but that's about all i took from this storyline.

Orjin/Greymane - i enjoyed this. Bummer he lost most of his lieutenants... i liked them. The fight against the undeadish KChain Soldier was suitably epic. I hope we get to see some of his time with the Empire (before he, y'know, joins the Guard!!!).


Book wrap up post will follow.

[nacht]

Whatever happened to Lee (Surly's first claw). Did she make an appearance.

Kell/T'lan
Loved the explanation of why Kellanved would not not call on TLan Imass frequently. (You are deemed unworthy :-)))))
Now the big mystery is why they agreed to destroy Aren.

[Speedy]

nacht, on 06 March 2019 - 11:52 PM, said:

Whatever happened to Lee (Surly's first claw). Did she make an appearance.

Kell/T'lan
Loved the explanation of why Kellanved would not not call on TLan Imass frequently. (You are deemed unworthy :-)))))
Now the big mystery is why they agreed to destroy Aren.

Holy c*ap I totally forgot about Lee, yeah she didnt make appearance in this book, maybe was mentioned but that's all. Regarding Kellanved and Imass, yeah kinda expected that outcome, though in previous books, I believe in one of Esslemont's Malazan Empire series book, there was a mention of how T'lan Imass made Dassem their god, or something like that, basically they made him Dassembrae and that they were truly following him, rather Kellanved. But back to this book, considering how mischievous Kellanved can be, I think that his main goal was just to occupy the throne not to command Imass, cause just the knowledge of someone who sits on throne of army of dust and bone can be pretty intimidating.

[FlynntMillit]

I forget the exact quote, but Cutter and Sorry talk about ST collecting thrones just to not use them.

Also makes me wonder why they bothered having it protected like they did, if an Imass is just going to chop of anyone's head who's deemed unworthy...

[Nevyn]

[/quote]
Holy c*ap I totally forgot about Lee, yeah she didnt make appearance in this book, maybe was mentioned but that's all. Regarding Kellanved and Imass, yeah kinda expected that outcome, though in previous books, I believe in one of Esslemont's Malazan Empire series book, there was a mention of how T'lan Imass made Dassem their god, or something like that, basically they made him Dassembrae and that they were truly following him, rather Kellanved. But back to this book, considering how mischievous Kellanved can be, I think that his main goal was just to occupy the throne not to command Imass, cause just the knowledge of someone who sits on throne of army of dust and bone can be pretty intimidating.
[/quote]

It is from the crippled god, a Tool flashback.

In it, Logros tells Tool that they are replacing him with Dassem in the title of First Sword (because the empire gave him that title). And doing so made Dassem a god, and that the falling out between Dassem and Hood was Hood's answer.

No specific mention of Aren and how that relates, though. Doubtful Dassem would have ordered it, and I believe the slaughter happened before Dassem's "death" at Y'Gatan

[champ]

Reading a new Malazan book is like returning home after a while away... you instantly settle back down into the environment...

I really enjoyed this book, yes, it felt rushed in some places but it was just pure nostalgic joy seeing the Empire come together.

Dancer/Cotillion is my favourite character in the entire series so I lap up his back story and love seeing the growth...

I absolutely loved this bit...

Quote

'Really? Then why all this? Why do any of it?'
'This? The Hold? The isle?' He waved a hand. 'I care nothing for this. It's a by-product only. I don't need it.'
Now Surly raised a brow, extremely doubtful.
'Really. A by-product … of what?'
'Of me challenging myself.' He inclined his head. 'Now, if you will excuse me – time is short.' He headed off....
Suffice it to say he had a resourceful partner he could trust, and so it was time to push himself as far as possible to see just what he could accomplish.

That just makes me think back to tCG's opening chapter with Edgewalker...

Quote

...Better, Cotillion decided, than jaded scepticism. Oh, how he was sick of that. 'Tell me,' he resumed, 'what do you think you're seeing here? Desperation? Panic? A failing of will, some inevitable decline crumbling to incompetence? Do you believe in failure, Edgewalker?'
The apparition remained silent for a time, and then spoke in a broken, rasping voice. 'You cannot be so … audacious.'
'I asked if you believed in failure. Because I don't.'
'Even should you succeed, Cotillion. Beyond all expectation, beyond, even, all desire. They will still speak of your failure.'
He sheathed his daggers. 'And you know what they can do to themselves.'
The head cocked, strands of hair dangling and drifting. 'Arrogance?'
'Competence,' Cotillion snapped in reply. 'Doubt me at your peril.'
'They will not believe you.'
'I do not care, Edgewalker. This is what it is.'
When he set out, he was not surprised that the deathless guardian followed. We have done this before. Dust and ashes puffed with each step. The wind moaned as if trapped in a crypt. 'Almost time, Edgewalker.'
'I know. You cannot win.' Cotillion paused, half turned. He smiled a ravaged smile. 'That doesn't mean I have to lose, does it?'

The confidence, the challenging himself... love it!!!


But my favourite part of the book was by far the dicussion about ranks/titles and the Old Guard...


I was laughing out loud at:

Quote

Tocaras threw his hands out. 'What armies?' Urko appeared affronted. 'Well – mine's the Seventh.'
Surly pinched her brows again. 'You can't call your command the Seventh Army, Urko. We only have one.'
The huge fellow leaned back, crossing his thick arms. 'Seven is my lucky number – so my command is the Seventh.'
Surly exchanged a significant look with Choss and Tocaras then waved her acceptance. 'Fine. As you like.

That entire section was just a joy to behold...


One question though...


Where is this exactly? Are they talking about the Glass Desert and Kolanse or?

Quote

In any case, even farther south than Stratem lies a long peninsula with no name. I myself have only come across one account of it. A traveller who passed its shores. No one has ever actually dared walk it.' 'And?' Dancer asked, as he knew the mage was aching to impart his knowledge. 'Ah. It is described as a great flat monotonous wasteland of salt pans and blasted rocks where nothing can live as the soil is too poisoned.' 'Sounds familiar.' 'The legend I came across is of one of the most savage battles waged between the Elders. A clash of the K'Chain Che'Malle and the ones known as the Forkrul. So ferocious was the exchange that the very land was laid to waste, poisoned and seared to glass. Even the Warrens here are wrenched and tattered – like slashed cloth. I can attest to that. So, it is very possible that we were cast into the middle of that very wasteland to die.'

I had a look at the maps and it didn't look like there was land mass further South...

This post has been edited by champ: 26 April 2019 - 03:08 PM

[Gorefest]

Well, author errors aside you can claim that the exact location is only hearsay anyway. Kell only read a single account of it, which may have incorrectly placed the landmass there. Or you can reason that in latitude Stratem sits slightly more northerly than Kolanse, not that Kolanse literally lies directly south of Stratem. But yeah, ICE and fact-checks...

[champ]

Aye, thought that may be the case, just wondered if I was missing something.


Also...


Interesting, rereading DHG and come across this...

Quote

In response, Mallick Rel straightened. 'High Fist Pormqual welcomes Fist Coltaine to Seven Cities, and wishes him well in his new command. The Seventh Army remains as one of the three original armies of the Malazan Empire, and the High Fist is confident that Fist Coltaine will honour their commendable history.'

We learn here that the Seventh was one of the first three armies and now we know how/why it was after KR, nice little tidbit.

[amphibian]

I think one of the things that this novel put forward is that the Empire as constructed when Surly assumes power was never her idea AND that she avenges a wrong as first priority even when there's better priorities to have.

She had different ideas to go about constructing the Empire and Kellanved constantly wrong footed her. That somewhat explains the disarray and distrust we see in the main series.

It's a nice bit of character work by ICE. He's gotten so much better as a writer and it looks like his editing process finally got to where it needs to be also. I was majorly impressed by the juggling of story lines, the ebbs and flows of pace, and the ability to turn quick appearances of characters into meaningful interactions.

I also think Gregor is Iron Bars and Haraj is Fingers.

[Blend]

amphibian, on 31 May 2019 - 09:10 PM, said:

I think one of the things that this novel put forward is that the Empire as constructed when Surly assumes power was never her idea AND that she avenges a wrong as first priority even when there's better priorities to have.

She had different ideas to go about constructing the Empire and Kellanved constantly wrong footed her. That somewhat explains the disarray and distrust we see in the main series.

It's a nice bit of character work by ICE. He's gotten so much better as a writer and it looks like his editing process finally got to where it needs to be also. I was majorly impressed by the juggling of story lines, the ebbs and flows of pace, and the ability to turn quick appearances of characters into meaningful interactions.

I also think Gregor is Iron Bars and Haraj is Fingers.

Really? I'm pretty confident that Gregar is Blues. His last name starts with Blues, and in the series proper, Blues and Fingers are always a pair, which makes sense if they're Gregar and Haraj.

This post has been edited by Blend: 07 June 2019 - 04:28 PM

[amphibian]

Oof, I forgot his last name is Bluenth.