[QuickTidal]

Duiker said:

Well, that's also what Martin is doing, isn't it?

And as an aside, the dude is called Erikson .

Yes, cause my spelling is what you should be picking at. LOL. Sometimes I mistype, it happens.

and no, in ASOIaF, he is dealing with a much smaller scale. I" mean, come on, the story on ASOIaF is great, but it's really easy to get a grasp on, so that's why something like AFFC happened, where alot was filler that didn't need to be there. I truly don't think that AFFC need to be so big that it had to be broken up, but that's because I think GRRM get's carried away with the "filling" part.....or maybe he's gotten greedy now and wants to stretch it out.....meh, whatever floats his boat.

[QuickTidal]

werewolfv2 said:

true, that's the problem with getting readers to try Erikson, too many people are lazy and want to have everything spelled out in front of them. The fact that Erikson doesn't do it is one of the reasons why he is one of the best Authors in the fantasy genre.

Absolutely!

[Ijon Tichy]

Quote

Dude, seriously, what I (and from what I hear) ALOT of people like about SE is exactly the fact that he doesn't spell it out for you.

Yes, but I think that a lot more people have given up the series because of this. I've seen many people say "This is too confusing, I can't understand what's going in this book" and given up somewhere during or after reading GOTM.

[Brys]

Duiker said:

Well, that's also what Martin is doing, isn't it?

And as an aside, the dude is called Erikson .

Yes, it can get confusing if you mispell the name, because there is another fantasy author called Steve Erickson, who writes very different novels to Steven Erikson

While some people like that Erikson doesn't spell everything out, most people don't. A lot of people who are willing to get through the series past the first two books are going to be the ones who do enjoy this unexplained exposition more, as everyone else will have given up by then. Martin has the advantage here of having enough detail for those who want it and a simple enough world for the lazy readers. Add to that the Martin's first book was definitely better written (at least in a technical sense) than Erikson's.

I've heard a lot of complaints about AFFC and haven't managed to get around to reading it yet - but is it really that bad? I expect it'd be a step down from A storm of Swords, but very little could manage to match that - but has it really started to go the way of Robert Jordan, or is it just a little worse and slower paced than the rest of the series.

[Arkmam]

It's a good book, but there is no huge, awesome things. And to many cliffhangers

[QuickTidal]

Brys said:

Yes, it can get confusing if you mispell the name, because there is another fantasy author called Steve Erickson, who writes very different novels to Steven Erikson

While some people like that Erikson doesn't spell everything out, most people don't. A lot of people who are willing to get through the series past the first two books are going to be the ones who do enjoy this unexplained exposition more, as everyone else will have given up by then. Martin has the advantage here of having enough detail for those who want it and a simple enough world for the lazy readers. Add to that the Martin's first book was definitely better written (at least in a technical sense) than Erikson's.

I've heard a lot of complaints about AFFC and haven't managed to get around to reading it yet - but is it really that bad? I expect it'd be a step down from A storm of Swords, but very little could manage to match that - but has it really started to go the way of Robert Jordan, or is it just a little worse and slower paced than the rest of the series.

Um, we're are not only on a MAlazan board, but a thread where we were talking about Erikson vs Martin.....so I would expect you'd know who I was talking about, but whatever.


I'm not going to say AFFC is BAD persay, but alot of stuff doesn't need to be there, so you end up trying to wade through, and will randomly introduce you to a new POV character chapter and then not follow it up with another. I think there are maybe 2 or 3 POV's that are only 1 chapter. Trust me. It's worth reading,but don't expect it to be all that great, I had enjoyed all 3 previous books more.

[QuickTidal]

On a related note: I was just reading through a thread on "AFFC" on a martin forum, and the going rating seems to be lower than expected, with some feeling it was quite awful in parts. It really is a shame, cause the 1st 3 were really great, and I REALLY enjoyed them. It's quite a shame. But then again, maybe GRRM will read this stuff online and realize that he should do what he did with AFFC.

[QuickTidal]

Crawling Chaos said:

I very much enjoyed Martin's first three ASOIAF books but then had to settle in for the long wait. And in that time I noticed some folks on the Martin board mention some sort of 'Malazan' books. Well, in the time I was waiting for AFFC I read everything from Gardens of the Moon to Midnight Tides, plus the two Bauch elin and Broach novellas and Night of Knives. I'm now a pretty hardcore Erikson fan.

So while Martin may be more popular than Erikson, I prefer Erikson's writing. I enjoy working out the details without having them handed to me in a great expository lump or fed slowly and surely by a wise mentor to a young backwater bumpkin.

(Don't get me started on Jordan...)

But back to Martin. I was disappointed in AFFC. It felt too long for what it did. I had to struggle to keep reading it instead of putting it down to go do exciting things like ironing shirts.



Here's one

LOL, I think you'd catch me ironing instead of re-reading AFFC. I doubt I'll read it again.

[Dagger]

I am almost 500 pages in. It's not the thrill ride that the first three books were but I knew that going in because all the interesting plot lines involved the North or the East. Still, the descent of Cersei has been entertaining (not to mention her "experimenting" a few pages ago), I am enjoying Brienne's perspective, the Iron boys are going to be trouble for everyone, and Jaime is becoming almost as cool as his little brother.

[QuickTidal]

That was very well put Cherusker! I will buy that. I wish I had done the same and read both AFFC and ADWD at the same time.

[MoP]

I agree with most things you say Cherusker, but even if I were to read this book with ADWD I still think I'd feel the same simply because so much of the book is obvious filler material that could have been cut without any damage to the story.

[QuickTidal]

MoP said:

I agree with most things you say Cherusker, but even if I were to read this book with ADWD I still think I'd feel the same simply because so much of the book is obvious filler material that could have been cut without any damage to the story.

This is likely gonna be true too. There really is ALOT filler in AFFC, so I guess part of this is that I don't think there was enough material TO split the book into two you know?

[Werthead]

It is extremely amusing whenever anyone says, "Yes, there's a lot of filler in this novel." You can't say that until you've read up to the end of the final novel. Then you can come back and say, "Well, this was totally extraneous to the plot, that's filler."

[Dagger]

I finished two weeks ago. It was no Storm of Swords but it is setting up some major developments. And Jaime's final scene ended on such a fine note. It's really got me jonesing for Dance with Dragons now. Cherusker's idea is not a bad one, I could easily see reading this one and then jumping on Dance immediately after.

Filler? No, there is none. I think everything had a purpose, there's a lot of new threads being exposed here. Martin has definitely not gone down the Jordan road.

[MoP]

Werthead said:

It is extremely amusing whenever anyone says, "Yes, there's a lot of filler in this novel." You can't say that until you've read up to the end of the final novel. Then you can come back and say, "Well, this was totally extraneous to the plot, that's filler."

I disagree to an extent. Firstly, there was an inordinate amount of descriptive prose that really served no purpose other than to fill in the gaps for the more devout (was tossing up whether to put in obsessive) fans i.e. the almost neverending description of armour and heraldry of every non-important knight that happened to be in the vicinity of the action. Secondly, I do tend to think that alot of the story 'arcs' (I use the term loosely because I think that there some that really weren't arcs in any meaningful sense) that could have conveyed everything that they did in half the space (Dorne, Iron Islands, Brienne, Cirsei to name a few).

[QuickTidal]

Werthead said:

It is extremely amusing whenever anyone says, "Yes, there's a lot of filler in this novel." You can't say that until you've read up to the end of the final novel. Then you can come back and say, "Well, this was totally extraneous to the plot, that's filler."

Indeed, and by this rational you can account for random goings on about eating and walking and doing generally nothing important.....if you're trying to tell me that some of the filler exists for a purpose.....LOL!! Please, the man just likes to talk....it's as simple as that.

[Roland]

Now ifthat was true, we should forgive Jordan the last 4-5 books, right? Since we don't have the right to condemn them as fillers without having read the end of the Wheel of Time saga... Get real, dude

[Brahm_K]

I think that complaints of filler in AFFC are unwarranted (in a way). I think all can agree that AFFC doesn't advance the plot as much as say, A Storm of Swords, but it was pretty necessary to close the first part of the series and open up the next. There has been "filler" in all his books; Martin has always paid attention to detail, from heraldry to what people are wearing to what they're eating. Therefore, if people are going to complain about filler in AFFC, they might as well complain about filler in the entire series. And George has always had what could be deemed "unnecessary" chapters in character arcs that could have easily been combined with another (ex: The Arya's wanderings in the Riverlands that takes up two books, etc..). Personally, while I don't think that AFFC was up to, say, A Storm of Swords or A Game of Thrones, I did feel it matched up (and perhaps surpassed) A Clash of Kings and was completely awesome.