[Roland]

Yet RJ was amasing in his first novels and STILL produced them in half the time it takes for Martin to do it. I'm sorry but as much as I like the first three books, they are NOT so great that I would wait 15 more years for him to finish the series. I'd be 35 then for pity's sake! And we'll of course see for ourselves when it hits shelves but I don't think it's not gonna be worth the wait

[lfex]

What is wrong with voicing his opinions on his website? It is called freedom of speech, you know. I don't necessarily agree with his political opinions, but it doesn't mean I think less of him as a writer or as a human being because of them. Who cares what are authors political opinions as long as they write good books? I can enjoy books by both far left-wing writers like China Mieville and far right-wing writers like John C. Wright.

Besides he didn't use Bush victory as an excuse for book being late,. He just stated that he is at the moment too depressed to write. It lasted less than a week, IIRC.

[Roland]

I can't see the reasoning behind this:

Quote

What is wrong with voicing his opinions on his website? It is called freedom of speech, you know. I don't necessarily agree with his political opinions, but it doesn't mean I think less of him as a writer or as a human being because of them.

First, noone denyed him the right to say whatever he likes. It is what he says we're currently discussing. Second, it's illogical for me not to change my oppinion of anyone I don't agree with or says things I don't approve. That doesn't have much to do with his qualities as an author but it has a LOT to do with my perception of them. That's what I think at least.

Oh, and just somethink to think upon: Among the htings that have been published betwen the third and fourth book of SIF is the ENTIRE Malazan Book of the Fallen up till now. Off the top of my head...

[lfex]

Gardens of the Moon were published in 1999, and Deadhouse Gates somewhen in 2000, just about the same time as A Storm of Swords. (I certainly hadread it far sooner than ASOS, but I had an ARC) I am not denying that Erikson writes faster, but it also means that his writing is decidedly more sloppy, IMHO. Martin makes far less inconsistence mistakes and it has to have something to do with the fact that he is writing slower.

[Roland]

Yet Erikson makes only chronological mistakes (excluding GotM-isms) and his world is at least ten times as complex as Martins. I'm not even beginning to talk about the quality of writing, style, depth of characters and plot...

[lfex]

Well, that is a matter of taste. I certainly prefer Martin's style and especially characterization, but OTOH I admit that Erikson is better at world-buiding and more original. Both are clearly the best epic fantasy writers today and therefore arguing which one is better is rather pointless, IMHO. Nevertheless I do think that Erikson writes too fast. His books would be IMHO even better if he gave them thorough checking before sending them to the publisher.

[Roland]

A matter of taste of course I always preferred more epic and magic and less pornography.

But do you honestly think (and I'm not being nasty, it's just curiosity) Martin took so much time writing this book solely because of perfectionism?

[lfex]

Well, if you think Martin is pornography, you should read some Jacqueline Carey (not even mentioning Laurel Hamilton). It was debated many times on many boards, but there is not even one gratuitous sex scene in ASOIAF. They all are important part of character development.

As for perfectionism - basically yes. That and the desire to keep series from growing. He was trying to fit this part of the story into one book, and this just couldn't work. He can be blamed for not planning his story more carefully in advance, but it is completely different debate. I heard him say that he doesn't like to plan in too much detail, because it takes fun out of writing. Different writers do things in very different way.

[Roland]

Yes, well, to each his own... I find this too easy an excuse but if it suits you, than it's ok for you

[drosdelnoch]

LKH's latest offering is more sex than plot, Im not a prude but if it fits with the plot then fine, when its just done to fill pages then its a waste of time. But thats my opinion. Incidently is it worth mentioning my copy of FoC has landed and Im going to be starting it as soon as I finish Grave Peril (jim Butcher.)

My interview is set for 19th October so if anyone has a question either pm me or email me.

[Roland]

I don't need to have read other things to NOT like the sex scenes in Martin's books. And the fact that there are worst examples doesn't make this one good, ok? Besides, I don't have anything against depicting sex in literature but I don't need it in fantasy.

And even if we skip the "pornography" part, the "brutality" one comes right after it.

[Brys]

I think that both Erikson and Martin are great epic fantasy writers, though I prefer Erikson to Martin. I don't see why we should be complaining about Martin's political views and him telling us what they are. He wasn't seriously using it as an excuse for how long he took. Erikson is a superior writer IMO because his world is far better developed. But I don't think speed is particularly important in writing - sure, it's better for us if they can write faster, but I'd prefer to wait and have a really excellent book than to have a mediocre or poor book written in a short time. You're complaining a lot about it taking 5 years - well, Peake took 4 years between his Titus Groan and Gormenghast novels, and 9 years between that and Titus Alone - the point is, lots of decent authors take time over their novels, and some are just naturally faster than others. As someone trying to write their own novel, I can see how it can take you so long - I've been working on mine for 6 months, and written about 55,000 words, and he's written 10 times that amount (which happens to be 5 years, if writing at the same speed as me), and I know it's nowhere near the quality of Martin's. There are plenty of other great fantasy novels out there to read, so it's not like we have nothing we can read until they come out, and I know that I won't be reading AFFC when it comes out because I've got so many other great novels to read, despite it being one of my top 10 series.

I wouldn't argue that Martin's novels are pornography much at all - there is a little bit, and it isn't done in a childish fashion, but does that mean it has to be branded as such? Bakker has a similar amount, and Erikson's, albeit rare, scenes are as explicit. It isn't gratuitous, and that's what matters.

[caladanbrood]

Well, I'll be trying to get to the Basingstoke one, on the 25th, if I can. Anyone else?

[ChrisW]

I like Roland:).

[Roland]

And bluesman and Red Viper of Dorne should stick to the fact that Roland is writing in the forum, dedicated to one of the most soffisticated fantasy writers in the world

Martin is not too hardcore for me, just some aspects of his style do not appeal to me. I read Terry Goodkind for that matter and I liked him very much despite the pornography there (please, don't argue, there IS pornography in The Sword of Truth series). Then it became a bubble gum like Jordan's WoT... Anyway, the fact that these aspects do not bother me doesn't suggest I can't grumble about them, ok?

@ ChrisW - er... thy admission brings warm feelings to my heart I'm delighted, yet blushed

[Kimpo]

Red_Viper_of_Dorne said:

Roland and Caldazar should stick to the Young Adult fantasy shelves, where Robert Jordan and Harry Potter reside...

ah yes, because the level of maturity in a book is based on the amount of sex and violence probably not the way you meant it but couldn't help myself hehe