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WTF just happened NoK - SPOILERS

#1 User is offline   Hinter 

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 06:10 PM

I first picked up Gardens of the Moon in the year 2000. Christ knows how long later after reading every book by Erikson and all but the last 100 pages of Assail by Esslemont (house fire burned my copy) and inspired by the two new books by Esslemont I have decided to start again, reading them in chronological order. I started with Night of Knives.

Am I right in thinking that the whole story was a massive distraction to enable Kellanved and Dancer to sneak in the back door of the Deadhouse?

Surly obviously knows that Kellanved and Dancer are not dead, right?

Next, Gardens of the Moon "WTF just happened?" I reckon this may well be a longer post!
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#2 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 01:04 PM

It's tricky, because there are some discrepancies in the core text. GotM was written many years (12 or so?) before the rest of the books. It seems that by MoI, SE retconned some storylines surrounding Kel and Cot's ascension in order to make it fit better with the large arc and personal motivations. I don't it is ever made clear whether Surly knows they are still alive, although I imagine she at least strongly suspects it. But it does seem pretty clear that Kel and Cot used Surly to stage their own death and she was not in on their plans at the time.
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#3 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 05:48 PM

Kel and Dancer needed to appear to die, and in the process give up their claim on the Empire, in order to ascend.

It appears that Surly taking and holding power was part of that plan, but Surly herself was never in on it. I think that they were counting on her ambition to prompt her to take over and hold power when she found out they were returning and attempt to kill them so they could fake their own deaths.

Qualifier: they may not have been expecting her to try quite so hard or so nearly succeed.

It's not clear that Surly or anyone in the Empire knew for a fact that Kel and Dancer became Shadowthrone and Cotillion, but the clues are there and obvious. Throw in the apparent animosity between the Empire and Shadow at the outset of GotM, and it seems likely Laseen figured it out.
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Posted 04 March 2018 - 08:45 PM

 Gorefest, on 26 February 2018 - 01:04 PM, said:

It's tricky, because there are some discrepancies in the core text. GotM was written many years (12 or so?) before the rest of the books. It seems that by MoI, SE retconned some storylines surrounding Kel and Cot's ascension in order to make it fit better with the large arc and personal motivations. I don't it is ever made clear whether Surly knows they are still alive, although I imagine she at least strongly suspects it. But it does seem pretty clear that Kel and Cot used Surly to stage their own death and she was not in on their plans at the time.


I had the impression that when Tayshcrenn and Kiska stepped into the hall in Mock's Hold that Laseen was aware that she hadn't finished the job, that something had gone awry and she was a little bit worried as she knew that Kellanved and Dancer did not die in their fall from the balcony.
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Posted 04 March 2018 - 08:55 PM

 Abyss, on 26 February 2018 - 05:48 PM, said:

Kel and Dancer needed to appear to die, and in the process give up their claim on the Empire, in order to ascend.

It appears that Surly taking and holding power was part of that plan, but Surly herself was never in on it. I think that they were counting on her ambition to prompt her to take over and hold power when she found out they were returning and attempt to kill them so they could fake their own deaths.

Qualifier: they may not have been expecting her to try quite so hard or so nearly succeed.

It's not clear that Surly or anyone in the Empire knew for a fact that Kel and Dancer became Shadowthrone and Cotillion, but the clues are there and obvious. Throw in the apparent animosity between the Empire and Shadow at the outset of GotM, and it seems likely Laseen figured it out.





Thank you Abyss. Having just finished GotM (again) there will be a "Gardens of the Moon - WTF just happened" post soon! However, being one of my favourite books of the series I just need to clear up a few things about the Crimson Guard.
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