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Weinstein Celebrity Dead Pool

#421 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 09:38 AM

This whole case is making me feel very conflicted in that for the first time in the story of MeToo I find myself feeling sympathy for the, hm, accused. I think Worry is right in that part of the issue is the use of some phrases in the original article. The date, how different it was from the perspective of the two participants, that is a meaningful and important conversation I think. But that conversation falls to the wayside when Ansari is accused of committing sexual assault. I don't think this should be labeled as sexual assault. My awful date with Aziz Ansari is a good starting point for a discussion, the night i was sexually assaulted by Aziz Ansari isn't.

I think the distinction is important because Ansari is a person too, and despite being the worst date of this woman's life, I feel sorry for him and how his immature sexual behaviour has been presented for all the world to see in detail.
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#422 User is offline   Centzon Totochtin 

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:15 PM

Morgoth has put my thoughts into words I wasn't able to find. I feel it is a very important distinction. Not to diminish that it may have been the worst she has felt, but to be clear that there is a difference. I don't like to play the "my worst is worse than your worst game" as I think it is unfair to peoples life experiences, however as someone who has been a victim of sexual assault and rape, they are a different experience to the one described in this case I believe.

I feel like these are all different sides of the discussion regarding our society and the need for changes in the way we treat other human beings. Happy to add my perspective to these things if people are interested I generally don't comment as it is rather a charged issue which I have a very personal experience of.
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#423 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 12:26 PM

Is this an example of 3rd or 4th level analysis? I read in the comments that "Grace" has been named - no idea if it's true or not.

https://www.theatlan...x-panic/550547/

and when fiction may be a gentler method of achieving a similar end:

https://www.theatlan...acklash/550559/

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 19 January 2018 - 12:29 PM

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#424 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 07:07 PM

View PostCentzon Totochtin, on 19 January 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

Morgoth has put my thoughts into words I wasn't able to find. I feel it is a very important distinction. Not to diminish that it may have been the worst she has felt, but to be clear that there is a difference. I don't like to play the "my worst is worse than your worst game" as I think it is unfair to peoples life experiences, however as someone who has been a victim of sexual assault and rape, they are a different experience to the one described in this case I believe.

I feel like these are all different sides of the discussion regarding our society and the need for changes in the way we treat other human beings. Happy to add my perspective to these things if people are interested I generally don't comment as it is rather a charged issue which I have a very personal experience of.

Thanks to you for speaking here. It's really useful to hear from you and Mezla on this and other things.

And yes, Grace's real identity has been slathered all over 4chan and several other places of that kind. That's one of the ways Way and the editors at Babe dot net failed Grace.
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#425 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 07:14 PM

View Postamphibian, on 19 January 2018 - 07:07 PM, said:

View PostCentzon Totochtin, on 19 January 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

Morgoth has put my thoughts into words I wasn't able to find. I feel it is a very important distinction. Not to diminish that it may have been the worst she has felt, but to be clear that there is a difference. I don't like to play the "my worst is worse than your worst game" as I think it is unfair to peoples life experiences, however as someone who has been a victim of sexual assault and rape, they are a different experience to the one described in this case I believe.

I feel like these are all different sides of the discussion regarding our society and the need for changes in the way we treat other human beings. Happy to add my perspective to these things if people are interested I generally don't comment as it is rather a charged issue which I have a very personal experience of.

Thanks to you for speaking here. It's really useful to hear from you and Mezla on this and other things.

And yes, Grace's real identity has been slathered all over 4chan and several other places of that kind. That's one of the ways Way and the editors at Babe dot net failed Grace.


Wait, someone at babe.net doxxed Grace to the 4Channers? Source? Proof of that?
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#426 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 07:40 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 19 January 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

Wait, someone at babe.net doxxed Grace to the 4Channers? Source? Proof of that?


I would guess its much more that people put it together due to details in the article, including her occupation and working a specific awards after party. But I'm not going into those corners of the internet to find out more about what happened, so I could be wrong

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 19 January 2018 - 07:40 PM

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#427 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:07 PM

View PostNevyn, on 19 January 2018 - 07:40 PM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 19 January 2018 - 07:14 PM, said:

Wait, someone at babe.net doxxed Grace to the 4Channers? Source? Proof of that?


I would guess its much more that people put it together due to details in the article, including her occupation and working a specific awards after party. But I'm not going into those corners of the internet to find out more about what happened, so I could be wrong

It's most likely this. But I too will not wade into those places to find out how many people found this out kinda sorta all at the same time. Or why those people think it's ok/good/fun to de-anonymize a person in this context.
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#428 User is offline   Malankazooie 

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 08:39 PM

She had a twitter account where she referenced the #MeToo movement in a tweet a few months back and hinted at her situation (without the details) by naming Ansari in the tweet. She deleted the tweet, but much like anything on the internet was ignorant not to know that everything is permanent, whether you delete it or not.
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#429 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 11:29 PM

View PostMalankazooie, on 19 January 2018 - 08:39 PM, said:

She had a twitter account where she referenced the #MeToo movement in a tweet a few months back and hinted at her situation (without the details) by naming Ansari in the tweet. She deleted the tweet, but much like anything on the internet was ignorant not to know that everything is permanent, whether you delete it or not.


So probably not Babe.net's fault at all then? That sounds about right.
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#430 User is offline   amphibian 

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Posted 19 January 2018 - 11:45 PM

I think it's probable that Babe got tipped regarding the tweet, because they did approach Grace to tell her story rather than she to them, and then proceeded to not obscure enough of the identity that pretty much anyone with the time and the inclination could run through the demographic information Babe overshared.

It's clear from the lengths Grace went to obscure her identity that public anonymity was what she wanted. And that didn't happen among perhaps the worst crowds for the de-anonymizing to occur within.
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#431 User is offline   Lackluster Bachelorette 

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Posted 20 January 2018 - 02:14 AM

Watched the linked Banfield video. While I agree with a lot of what she said I DONT agree with the way she did it playing heavy offense with no chance of direct defense but she did make it obvious that she has personal investments/exp in what the movement is trying to do for women and I can understand if she feels frustration over this matter. I don’t think it was her place to do this but what she said is just a fraction of what Grace would be subject to if this went to a court room to determine if this was a “payday” move or legit and no I’m not saying it was a payday move. If Grace’s advisors didn’t prepare her this attention then they failed her completely in the greed to get this out.

Sorry if that makes anyone mad cause it definitely wasn’t meant to particularly hostile to either camp.
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#432 User is offline   Azath Vitr (D'ivers 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 09:29 PM

'Liz Lochhead recently called Burns "Weinsteinian" and "a sex pest", and prompted a controversy that has raged in the Scottish press for the past fortnight. Ahead of her talk on Burns and Women next week, Lochhead, the poet, playwright and former makar previewed her speech, in which she calls Burns a "sex pest" and drew attention to a 1788 letter to a friend in which he bragged of giving his lover Jean Armour a "thundering scalade [a military attack breaching defences] that electrified the very marrow of her bones", and said he "fucked her until she rejoiced".

For Lochhead, this "disgraceful sexual boast … seemed very like a rape of his heavily pregnant girlfriend. It's very, very Weinsteinian."

After her comments were aired on the BBC, Lochhead received support from Robert Crawford, whose biography of Burns quotes the letter, and who argued in the Herald that "what he presents as ... exclamations of pleasure may well have been cries of pain".

Burns did have "his Weinstein moments", Crawford agreed, and "feminists are right to subject [him] to scrutiny" when he comes across as "an 18th-century buck showing off [to] his male cronies".'


https://www.theguard...einian-sex-pest

On Ansari: is this part of the Babe article accurate? "[Ansari has] probably done more thinking about the nuances of dating and sex in the digital age than practically anyone else. He wrote a book about it, "Modern Romance", and it was a New York Times bestseller. Ansari built his career on being cute and nice and parsing the signals women send to men and the male emotions that result". If his career is in fact built on hypocrisy....

(Though in retrospect he might have been perfect for The Night Of.)

OTOH the allegations against Franco have been misleadingly reported and seem to have been taken out of context. (Example: How could taking his students to a strip club and encouraging them to remove their shirts have possibly been appropriate? They were in his class on Sex Scenes. Sketchy, possibly prurient and exploitative, but nowhere near Weinstein level, and arguably appropriate. My first university-level theater teacher encouraged all students to be naked. And we weren't even doing sex scenes (most of the time...).

It's also been reported that he "forced" a "mentee" to perform oral sex by "pushing her head down". In fact the woman was not a student or work relation, and they were already in a romantic relationship; and this a more accurate description of her account of what happened:

'They had begun a romantic relationship when she said he pressured her into performing oral sex on him — an act she'd never done with him at that point — while sitting in her car.

"I was talking to him, all of a sudden his penis was out," said Paley. "I got really nervous, and I said, 'Can we do this later?' He was kind of nudging my head down, and I just didn't want him to hate me, so I did it." She began to perform the sex act, but was uncomfortable. To extricate herself from the situation, she told Franco she spotted someone near the car. [...] Later, Paley said, she and Franco advanced their consensual sexual relationship. Today, she said she would have handled the encounter in the car differently, especially in the wake of the Weinstein scandal. "I would say, 'No, stop, get out of my car,'" she said. "The power dynamic was really off."'

http://www.latimes.c...-htmlstory.html

While bad in the same general way as Ansari, it seems nowhere near as bad in scale as what Ansari apparently did.

And complaints that he told students about roles for prostitutes doesn't seem so offensive or inappropriate given that he was working on an HBO series about prostitutes over the same time period. At least it doesn't seem hypocritical to quite the same extent as Ansari.)

This post has been edited by Azath Vitr (D'ivers: 24 January 2018 - 10:23 PM

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#433 User is offline   Lackluster Bachelorette 

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 04:36 AM

Gymnastics Dr gets 175 year jail sentence. Good. Enjoy your cell fucker.
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#434 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 01:51 PM

View PostBriar King, on 25 January 2018 - 04:36 AM, said:

Gymnastics Dr gets 175 year jail sentence. Good. Enjoy your cell fucker.

Yeah didn't one or two of them have NDA's or something so that when they tried to speak out they were threatened with massive fines for doing so? It's utterly mental that someone would even think of saying that! Glad he is locked up for the rest of his life now.

Though he would have got away with it if it wasn't for those medaling kids! :shocking:
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#435 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:02 PM

Not famous to anyone not Canadian....but Patrick Brown, leader of the Progressive Conservative party of Ontario (think: our milk toast version of "family values" style Republicans who are anything BUT that...) has been accused by two women of assault, and I think at least one of them was underage.

He has stepped down from leadership of the party, but is staying as an MPP (I don't think that will last long either to be honest).

It's weird, but every time I saw a campaign commercial for this guy, he SCREAMED "slimy" to me.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 January 2018 - 02:55 PM

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#436 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:27 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 25 January 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

Not famous to anyone not Canadian....but Patrick Brown, leader of the Progressive Conservative party of Canada (think: our milk toast version of "family values" style Republicans who are anything BUT that...) has been accused by two women of assault, and I think at least one of them was underage.

He has stepped down from leadership of the party, but is staying as an MPP (I don't think that will last long either to be honest).

It's weird, but every time I saw a campaign commercial for this guy, he SCREAMED "slimy" to me.


Brown is leader of the Ontario PC's.

There are no federal PC's thanks to various party mergers.

Never liked the guy, but there is an election coming very soon and a LOT of Ontarians are fed up with the Liberals. So a nice big hit to our voting alternatives. Seriously, the PCs haven't had a credible leader since John Tory (who ran a bad campaign regardless and is now a mediocre mayor of Toronto).

Also, its "milquetoast".

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 25 January 2018 - 02:35 PM

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When Venge's turn comes, he will get a yes from Mess, Dolmen, Nevyn and Venge but a no from the 3 fascists and me. **** with my Government, and i'll **** with yours
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#437 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 02:56 PM

View PostNevyn, on 25 January 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 25 January 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

Not famous to anyone not Canadian....but Patrick Brown, leader of the Progressive Conservative party of Canada (think: our milk toast version of "family values" style Republicans who are anything BUT that...) has been accused by two women of assault, and I think at least one of them was underage.

He has stepped down from leadership of the party, but is staying as an MPP (I don't think that will last long either to be honest).

It's weird, but every time I saw a campaign commercial for this guy, he SCREAMED "slimy" to me.


Brown is leader of the Ontario PC's.

There are no federal PC's thanks to various party mergers.

Never liked the guy, but there is an election coming very soon and a LOT of Ontarians are fed up with the Liberals. So a nice big hit to our voting alternatives. Seriously, the PCs haven't had a credible leader since John Tory (who ran a bad campaign regardless and is now a mediocre mayor of Toronto).

Also, its "milquetoast".


It was early and I was typing without having had my coffee. Corrected the party name.

And I know it's milquetoast....but I like milk toast better. It's funnier. Because it makes me picture boring milk and toast (no butter).

Also, you realize this means more Wynne right? No one is voting for that bowl of oatmeal Horwath....and the PC's aren't getting a new leader up and voted for by June...Brown is plastered across ALL their media....they are done this round. Prepare for more Kathleen bloody Wynne. Sidebar: I NEVER would have voted for the PCs anyways, and I don't vote NDP....so I'm part of the problem as I'll simply vote for Wynne again....even though I don't like her much....she's the least problematic for me as a vote.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 January 2018 - 02:59 PM

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#438 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 03:40 PM

OK, so I know this has now moved into the Discussion Board and such this video is probably not appropriate, but I feel like it answers - in a VERY funny way - this whole "Ooh, men aren't allowed to even talk to women any more" thing that the right wing press is pushing since all these allegations started coming out...

The Mash Report: How NOT to sexually harass someone!

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#439 User is offline   Mentalist 

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 07:58 PM

View PostQuickTidal, on 25 January 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

View PostNevyn, on 25 January 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 25 January 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

Not famous to anyone not Canadian....but Patrick Brown, leader of the Progressive Conservative party of Canada (think: our milk toast version of "family values" style Republicans who are anything BUT that...) has been accused by two women of assault, and I think at least one of them was underage.

He has stepped down from leadership of the party, but is staying as an MPP (I don't think that will last long either to be honest).

It's weird, but every time I saw a campaign commercial for this guy, he SCREAMED "slimy" to me.


Brown is leader of the Ontario PC's.

There are no federal PC's thanks to various party mergers.

Never liked the guy, but there is an election coming very soon and a LOT of Ontarians are fed up with the Liberals. So a nice big hit to our voting alternatives. Seriously, the PCs haven't had a credible leader since John Tory (who ran a bad campaign regardless and is now a mediocre mayor of Toronto).

Also, its "milquetoast".


It was early and I was typing without having had my coffee. Corrected the party name.

And I know it's milquetoast....but I like milk toast better. It's funnier. Because it makes me picture boring milk and toast (no butter).

Also, you realize this means more Wynne right? No one is voting for that bowl of oatmeal Horwath....and the PC's aren't getting a new leader up and voted for by June...Brown is plastered across ALL their media....they are done this round. Prepare for more Kathleen bloody Wynne. Sidebar: I NEVER would have voted for the PCs anyways, and I don't vote NDP....so I'm part of the problem as I'll simply vote for Wynne again....even though I don't like her much....she's the least problematic for me as a vote.


As an NDP voter, yes I consider you part of the problem.
Vote for the party, not the individual.
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View PostJump Around, on 23 October 2011 - 11:04 AM, said:

And I want to state that Ment has out-weaseled me by far in this game.
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#440 User is offline   QuickTidal 

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Posted 25 January 2018 - 08:19 PM

View PostMentalist, on 25 January 2018 - 07:58 PM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 25 January 2018 - 02:56 PM, said:

View PostNevyn, on 25 January 2018 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostQuickTidal, on 25 January 2018 - 02:02 PM, said:

Not famous to anyone not Canadian....but Patrick Brown, leader of the Progressive Conservative party of Canada (think: our milk toast version of "family values" style Republicans who are anything BUT that...) has been accused by two women of assault, and I think at least one of them was underage.

He has stepped down from leadership of the party, but is staying as an MPP (I don't think that will last long either to be honest).

It's weird, but every time I saw a campaign commercial for this guy, he SCREAMED "slimy" to me.


Brown is leader of the Ontario PC's.

There are no federal PC's thanks to various party mergers.

Never liked the guy, but there is an election coming very soon and a LOT of Ontarians are fed up with the Liberals. So a nice big hit to our voting alternatives. Seriously, the PCs haven't had a credible leader since John Tory (who ran a bad campaign regardless and is now a mediocre mayor of Toronto).

Also, its "milquetoast".


It was early and I was typing without having had my coffee. Corrected the party name.

And I know it's milquetoast....but I like milk toast better. It's funnier. Because it makes me picture boring milk and toast (no butter).

Also, you realize this means more Wynne right? No one is voting for that bowl of oatmeal Horwath....and the PC's aren't getting a new leader up and voted for by June...Brown is plastered across ALL their media....they are done this round. Prepare for more Kathleen bloody Wynne. Sidebar: I NEVER would have voted for the PCs anyways, and I don't vote NDP....so I'm part of the problem as I'll simply vote for Wynne again....even though I don't like her much....she's the least problematic for me as a vote.


As an NDP voter, yes I consider you part of the problem.
Vote for the party, not the individual.


You misunderstand me.

I vote for the platform every time. The chances the platform of either the NDP or the PCs will line up with my feelings is next to nil...and the times it's occurred in the past is almost never...I think voting in the current mayor of my city was the only time I dipped a toe into the PC waters since I was able to vote at 18.

So yeah, I'll end up voting Wynne because the Liberal platform is the one that almost always lines up with how I feel on the topics that are important to me for the province. I can dislike the leader of the Liberal party herself, and still want to vote for the platform in general. Wynne has pulled some non-party line shit in her time...affecting my city...and is also a pretty shitty pubic communicator. The party platform doesn't often waver on paper...but she's still pulled some rank shit in their name that would not fly in a campaign amongst her voters. The Libs should have chosen another leader. She's shit.

Parties NEED good leaders despite their platforms though. They are effectively being voted as the "Prime Minster of a province", Premiere is just the title that differentiates them from the actual Federal level.

And unless Caroline Mulroney and the PC's drastically change the PC platform...I'm not voting for them either and never was.

This post has been edited by QuickTidal: 25 January 2018 - 08:20 PM

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