Malazan Empire: Siege of Pale - Malazan Empire

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Siege of Pale

#1 User is offline   book_fanatic 

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Posted 22 August 2017 - 09:13 PM

In Gardens of the Moon, during 'Siege of Pale' when all High Mages and a cadre of mages are attacking Moon's Spawn why 2nd and 6th armies are stationed near the battlefield endangering themselves? Why are they not far off during this battle of mages? How do they (commanding officers) justify stationing their soldiers when they could remain away till Moon's Spawn is defeated and then attack Pale?

I have not read full book. It might be justified from Tayschrenn's perspective (as i think he was betraying) but from soldier's perspective how do they justify stationing them near battling mages?

This post has been edited by book_fanatic: 22 August 2017 - 09:14 PM

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#2 User is offline   polle 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:23 AM

View Postbook_fanatic, on 22 August 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

In Gardens of the Moon, during 'Siege of Pale' when all High Mages and a cadre of mages are attacking Moon's Spawn why 2nd and 6th armies are stationed near the battlefield endangering themselves? Why are they not far off during this battle of mages? How do they (commanding officers) justify stationing their soldiers when they could remain away till Moon's Spawn is defeated and then attack Pale?

I have not read full book. It might be justified from Tayschrenn's perspective (as i think he was betraying) but from soldier's perspective how do they justify stationing them near battling mages?


As I understood it, this is the unspoken contract between Malazan soldiers and mages. The mages proctect them from enemy mages and the soldiers protect their cadre. As mages are predominantly focussing on negating the magic of their counterparts they are vulnerable to attack by enemy soldiers. The Malazan soldiers are on hand to prevent that.
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#3 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:26 AM

I think Polle's got it.

You might quibble about how many soldiers you'd station around the cadre, depending upon the scenario. But mainly soldiers get fucked up in battle, not much you can do. No different from how vulnerable modern soldiers are to bombardment.

I would argue though that in the rare case where you know power on the level of Pale is about the get released, you'd have your main army stationed miles from the exchange of sorcery. The mages themselves are not threatened by regular troop movements. Each of the High Mages could have murdered a thousand soldiers if you sent somebody their way.

More pressing would be having a smaller group of guards standing around the mages to protect them from magical assassins porting in via warren. I imagine that the mages would know if and when such an attack was imminent, might even be able to prevent it by blocking a warren or something convoluted like that but your aim should still be to avoid a mage getting a knife in his/her back.
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#4 User is offline   Not Noto 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 06:21 PM

View Postpolle, on 23 August 2017 - 08:23 AM, said:

View Postbook_fanatic, on 22 August 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

In Gardens of the Moon, during 'Siege of Pale' when all High Mages and a cadre of mages are attacking Moon's Spawn why 2nd and 6th armies are stationed near the battlefield endangering themselves? Why are they not far off during this battle of mages? How do they (commanding officers) justify stationing their soldiers when they could remain away till Moon's Spawn is defeated and then attack Pale?

I have not read full book. It might be justified from Tayschrenn's perspective (as i think he was betraying) but from soldier's perspective how do they justify stationing them near battling mages?


As I understood it, this is the unspoken contract between Malazan soldiers and mages. The mages proctect them from enemy mages and the soldiers protect their cadre. As mages are predominantly focussing on negating the magic of their counterparts they are vulnerable to attack by enemy soldiers. The Malazan soldiers are on hand to prevent that.

Always an even trade!
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#5 User is offline   Nevyn 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 07:18 PM

View Postbook_fanatic, on 22 August 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

In Gardens of the Moon, during 'Siege of Pale' when all High Mages and a cadre of mages are attacking Moon's Spawn why 2nd and 6th armies are stationed near the battlefield endangering themselves? Why are they not far off during this battle of mages? How do they (commanding officers) justify stationing their soldiers when they could remain away till Moon's Spawn is defeated and then attack Pale?

I have not read full book. It might be justified from Tayschrenn's perspective (as i think he was betraying) but from soldier's perspective how do they justify stationing them near battling mages?


Can't really go into huge detail as the perspective on what happened there evolves through the series.

So the generic answer would be

1) If you pull back your armies, it is not really a siege.

2) That mage battle did not go as expected.
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Posted 23 August 2017 - 08:03 PM

View PostNevyn, on 23 August 2017 - 07:18 PM, said:

View Postbook_fanatic, on 22 August 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

In Gardens of the Moon, during 'Siege of Pale' when all High Mages and a cadre of mages are attacking Moon's Spawn why 2nd and 6th armies are stationed near the battlefield endangering themselves? Why are they not far off during this battle of mages? How do they (commanding officers) justify stationing their soldiers when they could remain away till Moon's Spawn is defeated and then attack Pale?

I have not read full book. It might be justified from Tayschrenn's perspective (as i think he was betraying) but from soldier's perspective how do they justify stationing them near battling mages?


Can't really go into huge detail as the perspective on what happened there evolves through the series.

So the generic answer would be

1) If you pull back your armies, it is not really a siege.

2) That mage battle did not go as expected.


#1 is important. Mages themselves won't take the city. Mages themselves won't THREATEN the city who have mages themselves.
My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father...
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#7 User is offline   book_fanatic 

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Posted 23 August 2017 - 09:52 PM

Agreed that mages themselves don't threaten the city, but Claws were sent to keep their mages busy while High Mages and a cadre battles Moon's Spawn. And Moranth's legions were safe but not Onearm's Host, during the battle of mages. If I am getting all this wrong please help me to get it right so that it don't happen that I proceed into the book and don't understand further or hint me if these things will be addressed further in the book .(as I already know that book will go into different perspectives)

Thanks.

This post has been edited by book_fanatic: 23 August 2017 - 09:53 PM

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#8 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 29 August 2017 - 03:32 PM

View Postbook_fanatic, on 23 August 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

Agreed that mages themselves don't threaten the city, but Claws were sent to keep their mages busy while High Mages and a cadre battles Moon's Spawn. And Moranth's legions were safe but not Onearm's Host, during the battle of mages. If I am getting all this wrong please help me to get it right so that it don't happen that I proceed into the book and don't understand further or hint me if these things will be addressed further in the book .(as I already know that book will go into different perspectives)

Thanks.


The Moranth held back during the sorcery attack. They were not involved.

The Malazan Claw went in after Pale's Mages. They were in the city stabbing people during the sorcery attack, or else not obviously on the front line.

The Malazan Mages attacked Moon's Spawn. Some Malazan soldiers were positioned around the Mages to protect them from enermy assassins or other physical threats while they were busy throwing magic around.


When the sorcery attack went down and shit started falling out of the sky or going explodey some soldiers ran to the Mages for protection. The Mages were too overwhelmed and could not help them. That is when Tattersail almost died, and the chapter opens with her looking at the dead soldiers around her that she could not help. That's also when Calot dies and Hairlock was ripped in half.


Onearm's Host was in position to attack Pale when Moon's Spawn was out of play, thus in the worse place possible. Toc the Younger was injured when a chunk of Moon's Spawn fell on his squad.

The Bridgeburners were even worse off, because they were underground when the attack happened and the tunnels caved in on them.


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#9 User is offline   book_fanatic 

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Posted 05 September 2017 - 09:44 AM

View PostAbyss, on 29 August 2017 - 03:32 PM, said:

View Postbook_fanatic, on 23 August 2017 - 09:52 PM, said:

Agreed that mages themselves don't threaten the city, but Claws were sent to keep their mages busy while High Mages and a cadre battles Moon's Spawn. And Moranth's legions were safe but not Onearm's Host, during the battle of mages. If I am getting all this wrong please help me to get it right so that it don't happen that I proceed into the book and don't understand further or hint me if these things will be addressed further in the book .(as I already know that book will go into different perspectives)

Thanks.


The Moranth held back during the sorcery attack. They were not involved.

The Malazan Claw went in after Pale's Mages. They were in the city stabbing people during the sorcery attack, or else not obviously on the front line.

The Malazan Mages attacked Moon's Spawn. Some Malazan soldiers were positioned around the Mages to protect them from enermy assassins or other physical threats while they were busy throwing magic around.

When the sorcery attack went down and shit started falling out of the sky or going explodey some soldiers ran to the Mages for protection. The Mages were too overwhelmed and could not help them. That is when Tattersail almost died, and the chapter opens with her looking at the dead soldiers around her that she could not help. That's also when Calot dies and Hairlock was ripped in half.

Onearm's Host was in position to attack Pale when Moon's Spawn was out of play, thus in the worse place possible. Toc the Younger was injured when a chunk of Moon's Spawn fell on his squad.

The Bridgeburners were even worse off, because they were underground when the attack happened and the tunnels caved in on them.


...don't hesitate to post questions and be clear about where you are in the book so we don't accidentally spoil you.


Thanks a lot...!!! Now I got it all right....
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#10 User is offline   Mera II 

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Posted 05 July 2018 - 03:26 AM

View Postbook_fanatic, on 22 August 2017 - 09:13 PM, said:

In Gardens of the Moon, during 'Siege of Pale' when all High Mages and a cadre of mages are attacking Moon's Spawn why 2nd and 6th armies are stationed near the battlefield endangering themselves? Why are they not far off during this battle of mages? How do they (commanding officers) justify stationing their soldiers when they could remain away till Moon's Spawn is defeated and then attack Pale?

I have not read full book. It might be justified from Tayschrenn's perspective (as i think he was betraying) but from soldier's perspective how do they justify stationing them near battling mages?


I think Tattersail said something about "even trade" which means they commit those soldiers to protect the mages and in return too
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