Malazan Empire: Laseen's role? - Malazan Empire

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Laseen's role?

#1 User is offline   Prime Rake 

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 12:29 AM

On a re-read of the series and have started ICE's books now. Its always been speculated if Laseen was in on ST and CT's plans to ascend and I think ICE might of made a mistake or put a subtle hint in. Temper thinks back to what Rengel said at the start ;


'The bloodshed summoned it. Fiends and worse rule this night!'

This is in reference to the riots earlier in the year which we all know was Laseen's doing. I've read some theories on why she did that but they're all vague. If the shadow moon was summoned by the riots though it means she helped them ascend and gave them a way to disappear by 'assassinating' while they consolidated their power without any ascendants or gods being able to interfere. Which could be why she took the claws, Topper and Possum for witnesses to spread the rumour of their deaths and why she was so adamant about them being dead to Tayschrenn. Also explains why Taschrenn gets annoyed and tells Kiska to keep the news quiet. Could they all be in on it?

Why I think it might be a mistake is what Rengel actually says;


The riots an' killin' and such this year prophesied it. Maybe even summoned it.

So ICE hasn't even written the same thing in his quote from Temper. So mistake or hint?
Any thoughts or opinions? Am I forgetting any info that might suggest otherwise? I haven't finished it yet, is there any parts further in that disprove this?

#2 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 12:54 AM

Please change your thread title so it's not a spoiler (e.g. "Laseen's role?").


This post has been edited by Abyss: 20 April 2017 - 02:38 PM

They came with white hands and left with red hands.

#3 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 20 April 2017 - 02:08 PM

I think it's intentionally ambiguous. ICE gives enough hints that it is possible that Laseen did all of this to support K&D's ascension, but not enough to confirm it and it is still equally plausible that she just did it because she was an ambitious jerk, or because she had some reason that the empire couldn't be left in Kellanved's hands and was indeed trying to kill him.

Or maybe all of the above?!

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.

#4 User is offline   the broken 

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 06:52 PM

Rereading NOK lately, and something is standing out to me,

K&D bring an army of shadow cultists and a company of bridgeburners to Malaz. The shadow cultists wander around picking random fights with people like Oleg, Tayschrenn and Kiska while they're waiting for things to kick off at the Deadhouse, the Bridgeburners go straight for the fortress.

Against this, Laseen's security is composed of three Hands, Topper, and Possum.

Granted, a single Hand demolishes the BB's with only two casualties, but ten years later the Claw deploys more than that just for Kalam. Possum was sent after the cultists later, so she knew about them, so was she expecting to have to deal with the cultists herself or did she notice them later, because she doesn't seem to know K&D are going after the Deadhouse, but if she didn't know that, she should have more guards. Thoughts?

#5 User is offline   Wu ammanas 

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Posted 30 August 2019 - 11:10 PM

From the fact that most people knew of the shadowmoon and what many of the mages expected would occur. I don't think the riots caused it. O think it's almost like a prophesied night like winter solstice etc. However ICE left the fact that surly did it did not support their Ascension ambiguous. Bear it in mind that the fact that she ursuroed their throne pained them. However it's a fact that dancer and ST considered what she did as a betrayal

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