[qroq]

So Kalam and Fiddler want to assassinate the empress and retur Apsalar to Quon Tali. In the first chapter of the book, Crokus asks them why this means travelling through 7C, but he doesn't get a satisfactory answer. According to the world maps on the wiki, and according to Crokus, it's quite the detour.
The answer Crokus does get from Kalam is "because seven cities is about to rise".. which doesn't explain anything, really. As is revealed when Kalam obtains the holy book, Fiddler at least has no intention of weakening the empire by helping the rebellion.
So, why did they choose the scenic route instead of just travelling by ship directly to Quon Tali?

[Puck]

Because to get at Laseen, they need to surprise her, meaning just hopping on a ship to Quon Tali is right out when it comes to options. On the other hand, Quick Ben's theory that all Azath houses are interconnected and allow travel between them, if proven right, would allow them to both plopp up right beneath Laseen's nose unannounced and unsuspected AND land them on the right continent to drop Apsalar off at home. So they go looking for Tremorlor so they can see if QB was right and it is a convenient way to teleport to the Deadhouse on Malaz Island. Of course, telling as much to Crokus just because he asks nicely would be a stupid idea.

This post has been edited by Puck: 26 March 2017 - 05:42 PM

[qroq]

But Kalam does arrive by ship in the end--and why would Laseen (or the Claw) be more wary of a ship coming from Genabackis than from Seven Cities? It's not like she's expecting Kalam. (at least not until he drew her attention by messing with the rebellion in 7C!)

Tremorlor was always Plan B I think. If they just wanted an Azath, well there already was one in Darujhistan.

[HoosierDaddy]

Entry is never guaranteed at any Azath. People are wary of them for a reason. Better any other plan than that.

[D'rek]

Yeah, I don't think it makes much sense either. Kalam has Claw training! Surely he can disguise the arrival of 4 people (two of whom no one cares about) arriving on one ship to Quon Tali. Quon Tali's not a particularly large continent, but it's still plenty big... it'd be like arriving on one particular ship to Australia (and not even to Sydney, mind you - they could have landed anywhere on the continent and travelled from there. Heck, it would have made sense to take Apsalar and Crokus to Itko Kan first anyways).

[Abyss]

...sticking within what we know by the end of DG... no later book spoilers...

qroq, on 26 March 2017 - 01:39 PM, said:

So Kalam and Fiddler want to assassinate the empress and retur Apsalar to Quon Tali. In the first chapter of the book, Crokus asks them why this means travelling through 7C, but he doesn't get a satisfactory answer. According to the world maps on the wiki, and according to Crokus, it's quite the detour.
The answer Crokus does get from Kalam is "because seven cities is about to rise".. which doesn't explain anything, really. As is revealed when Kalam obtains the holy book, Fiddler at least has no intention of weakening the empire by helping the rebellion.
So, why did they choose the scenic route instead of just travelling by ship directly to Quon Tali?

Couple of things... and it's all in the book but some of it is subtle...

1. Everyone knows - and everyone knows everyone else knows - Apsalar was the Rope's pawn set after Laseen. In theory the Empire wants her very very dead. By passing thru 7C during an uprising, Laseen can't track her.
2. Kalam is intending to make a run at Laseen and figures she can't track him either.
3. The Finnest house is new and closed and has no way in anyone knows about. Rallick and Vorcan had just disappeared into it and it just ate a Jaghut Tyrant. Tremolor was notionally accessible according to QB, and can be used to show up unannounced on Malaz island or anywhere else that has an Azath.

qroq, on 26 March 2017 - 05:57 PM, said:

But Kalam does arrive by ship in the end--and why would Laseen (or the Claw) be more wary of a ship coming from Genabackis than from Seven Cities? It's not like she's expecting Kalam. (at least not until he drew her attention by messing with the rebellion in 7C!)

Tremorlor was always Plan B I think. If they just wanted an Azath, well there already was one in Darujhistan.

Laseen woulld be wary of anyone, but a ship coming directly from the city that just foiled her attack moreso. Anywhere was better than Darujhistan, where Kalam was known to have just been.
Per above, Finnest House wasn't accessible.

HoosierDaddy, on 26 March 2017 - 08:29 PM, said:

Entry is never guaranteed at any Azath. People are wary of them for a reason. Better any other plan than that.

That too, but it seemed QB figured Tremolor was an option.

D, on 27 March 2017 - 02:53 PM, said:

Yeah, I don't think it makes much sense either. Kalam has Claw training! Surely he can disguise the arrival of 4 people (two of whom no one cares about) arriving on one ship to Quon Tali. Quon Tali's not a particularly large continent, but it's still plenty big... it'd be like arriving on one particular ship to Australia (and not even to Sydney, mind you - they could have landed anywhere on the continent and travelled from there. Heck, it would have made sense to take Apsalar and Crokus to Itko Kan first anyways).

My take: The plan was never to drop off Apsalar and Crokus first. They always intended Apsalar to be an option vs Laseen if the attempt went ahead.

Kalam's chat with Laseen at the end and her letting him walk (give or take a few dozen dead Claw) also suggests that assassination was not necessarily his goal. He accepted her explanation, suggesting part of him was trying to reconcile the desire for revenge vs loyalty to the Empire beyond just its current Empress. I'm pretty sure he was prepared to go ahead with it, and Fiddler was prepared to back him including using Apsalar to do so, but both also prepared to be convinced not to.

[PLUGO]

Perhaps Tremorlor was considered the best plan B based on "rumors" of the path of hands and its need for a new Guardian?

[Abyss]

QB didn't know about the Path of Hands, and the trail to Tremolor was a false one set by Shadowthrone.
The lack of a guardian is an interesting point tho... may have been why QB figured it was more accessible that other Azath.

[Kanese S's]

I always assumed that it was because Kalam and Fiddler wanted to throw Laseen off their trail. Kalam, Fiddler, and Apsalar were all known to be in Darujhistan, or at least on Genabackis. Laseen isn't an idiot; the Claw are likely keeping an eye on ships arriving from that continent. Probably already were, considering that there's an active military campaign there. Much more so than on ships coming from Seven Cities.

[Kalam&Quick]

Kanese S, on 11 April 2017 - 12:55 AM, said:

I always assumed that it was because Kalam and Fiddler wanted to throw Laseen off their trail. Kalam, Fiddler, and Apsalar were all known to be in Darujhistan, or at least on Genabackis. Laseen isn't an idiot; the Claw are likely keeping an eye on ships arriving from that continent. Probably already were, considering that there's an active military campaign there. Much more so than on ships coming from Seven Cities.

this exactly.

and you have to consider this:
1. With genabackis being in a military campaign, not only are they looking for renegade soldiers(IE bridge burners and guys like kalam) but also just Defecters in general. how many people do you think have been scooped up and send over to genebackis who would do ANYTHING To get back to Quan tali? i mean a whole company of recruits alone was gathered from the Kanese coast.

2. with the whole seven cities side of things, not only would the Uprising itself hide their travels(kalam being a native and fiddler having enough knowledge to act like one)
But consider, how many malazan citizens do you think have been flocking back form 7c during the uprising?
even from what we saw, we saw the treasury of Aren and all of pormquals stuff being sent back, and for months both before and I'm sure after, ship after ship was most likely going back to the malazan mainland. all those malazan merchants who moved to 7C after the conquest would be looking for ways back, and would be willing to pay MANY maalzan jakarta's to get there.

so when you have thousands of people trying to get back in a panicked rush, its easier to hide aboard a ship.



and then of course we have tremorlor. and the point made about the guardian sounds logical. I mean, quick ben has knowledge on the azath, enough so to allow fiddler to basicly walk right up to it right? i wouldnt doubt if quick had been in or around it before. i also wouldst doubt if he had an idea of it being without a guardian, thus meaning its potentially easier to access then, say, one on a different continent would be(if there were even any other they knew about that could eb accessed)

also considering the fact that, assuming they did get on a boat straight to Quon, and arrived anywhere on the mainland, they would have had to do some quick thinking, with some REALLY good excuses on why they should go after the empress BEFORE just dropping Apsalara off at the kanese coast.
the point was they wanted apsalara with them as a backup, since she had dancers skills, but they risked angering her as well, and they both probably knew she could take them both out if needed. going to 7c first and THEN taking a ship to Quon would involve making port at Unta, and not somewhere else closer to the Kanese coast. meaning they would be justified in going after the empress first and then dropping apasalara off.

[Wu ammanas]

Kalam was a claw but unlike other claws, never relied on magic. The last fight sequences in malaz city showed that. He got separated from them because of a need to hurt laseen , unfortunately events forced him to have to do much beyond what he bargained for. The others went through the route. The reasons for their choice of route was well explained by the comment above