[kpapik]

I'm disappointed by the book, in my opinion it doesn't make much sense. The author is telling story which has zero logic. I would be really grateful if you would prove me otherwise.

These things happens in the same time:

• Kallor is puting together an army to defeat thaumaturgs
• Skinner is collecting pieces of crippled god. K'azz is going for Skinner to prevent him to do that.
• Thaumaturgists wants to make the meteor(?) dissaster. Army of thaumaturgs is marching through the forest (a diversion sounds really lame)
• Saeng is looking for a temple to become high priest
• Triss is going to confront Ardata
• Malazans are going for one piece of crippled god.

All these points run in parallel and there is no logical interference between them. So Triss is going for Ardata in the same moment when thaumaturgs want to do the dissaster? And in the same moment when Saeng feels the need to become high priest? And in the same moment Skinner and K'azz are there too? REALLY?

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Convergence.

[kpapik]

Whisperzzzzzzz, on 26 March 2017 - 01:48 PM, said:

Convergence.

really? thats fantastic excuse for any writer who is not able to make story lines naturaly and logicaly intercontected. in different literature it would be a joke to have the coincidence that so many things happened in the same time and place. But here
- "its magical place - ther everything comes together"

[Aptorian]

Covergence has been the basis of the past 15 books. You could criticize every last book for this flaw.

But I agree, BAB is a disappointing and random book.

[worry]

I don't think any of it was a coincidence, but I cannot elaborate at this time.

[kpapik]

Apt, on 26 March 2017 - 04:03 PM, said:

Covergence has been the basis of the past 15 books. You could criticize every last book for this flaw.

But I agree, BAB is a disappointing and random book.

can you tell me more about the convergence? i read just the first book and then jumped to this one to try the other author. so maybe i missed that.

[Whisperzzzzzzz]

Whoa, whoa. That's a big piece of info you left out! The theme of convergence — power attracting power, like gravity — is a major stream that runs through this entire universe. I'd suggest going back and picking up the main series by Erikson (book 2 is Deadhouse Gates). Blood and Bone is a book that should be read way later in the reading order.

There's a reading order thread here: https://forum.malaza...d-order-thread/

[Gorefest]

kpapik, on 27 March 2017 - 10:06 AM, said:

can you tell me more about the convergence? i read just the first book and then jumped to this one to try the other author. so maybe i missed that.

You did what?

I hope you do realise that BnB is book 5 in Esslemont's series and book 12 or 13 or something like that in the overall arc? It is not really a surprise if you cannot follow the events if you just missed 11 other books of information....

[Aptorian]

Yeah, what Whisper and Gorefest said.

BAB was a mess, in terms of story telling, but most of the stuff the book touches upon would make no sense at all if you haven't read the rest of the books. Especially the stuff about Kallor and Osserc.

Go back and read the older books. Namely Deadhouse Gates, Memories of Ice, House of Chains and Midnight Tides are phenomenal books that build upon one anothe.

This post has been edited by Apt: 27 March 2017 - 11:32 AM

[polishgenius]

Blood and Bone was awesome.

It is a little disconnected even compared to the rest of the series that isn't Toll the Hounds, but that's because both those books are trying for a sort of fever-dream thematics-matter-as-much-as-plot thingy that I felt this book pulled off much better than TtH.

[Abyss]

Thirding or fourthing... BaB straight after GotM is a MASSIVE disconnect.

These authors are not taking the 'every book is someone's first' approach some series take. The first few books... GotM, DG, MoI, Esslemont's NoK... have intro elements, but any one alone wouldn't give you enough info to skip ahead to book 15 or so and follow half of what is going on.

Hell, kpapik, i'm impressed you finished BaB at all. You basically went from the bare beginning of the story to near the end of it... like watching the first episode of LOST and then skipping to the last half of the last season, more or less.

Check the 'reading order' thread Whisperz linked upthread. I really suggest that if you liked Gardens at all, go read Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice to make up your mind about continuing with the series. You're clearly a fantasy lit fan and you would be cheating yourself by not giving this a real chance.

[kpapik]

polishgenius, on 27 March 2017 - 01:37 PM, said:

Blood and Bone was awesome.

It is a little disconnected even compared to the rest of the series that isn't Toll the Hounds, but that's because both those books are trying for a sort of fever-dream thematics-matter-as-much-as-plot thingy that I felt this book pulled off much better than TtH.

thanks for the explanation. i have to admit that i wasnt exactly sure if i like it or not after reading the first book, so i wanted to try something from the middle to see if i like it better. and i didnt. so back to the start and I'm on deadhouse gates now!

thanks again

k.

[Abyss]

kpapik, on 27 March 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

... so back to the start and I'm on deadhouse gates now!...

Enjoy!


I suspect that you're about to have your mind blown.
repeatedly.
a lot.

Come back and tell us what you think in the DG forum!

[Gorefest]

kpapik, on 27 March 2017 - 02:54 PM, said:

thanks for the explanation. i have to admit that i wasnt exactly sure if i like it or not after reading the first book, so i wanted to try something from the middle to see if i like it better. and i didnt. so back to the start and I'm on deadhouse gates now!

thanks again

k.

Unfortunately that doesn't work with this series, as the novels are not set independently in the world but are serials. If you really want to try Esslemont to compare with Erikson, Night of Knives would be the book to go for, but if you do that you need to prepare yourself for some spoilers of the main story arc.

GotM is a bit hard for some readers to get into, because firstly it was written about a decade earlier than the other books and was originally intended as a screenplay which got amended into a novel, and secondly because the authors choose to throw you right in the middle of the action without much explanation of the world around you and they expect you to piece the world and the events together from context (conversations, character observations, etc). This can be a bit disorienting and confusing at first if you are not used to that style of writing.


Deadhouse Gates, the second novel by Erikson, already provides much more padding and overview. If you want to give this series a try, which I truly hope and encourage you to do, I'd recommend sticking in there for the first three books (GotM, DG, and MoI). If after those three books the penny hasn't dropped, the series may not be your cup of tea. But most avid fans of the series will have been converted to lifelong Malazan fanatics by then.

The suggested read order of the main arc for a first time reader would be (ignoring the short stories):

Gardens of the Moon (Steven Erikson)
Deadhouse Gates (SE)
Memories of Ice (SE)
House of Chains (SE)
Midnight Tides (SE)
Night of Knives (Ian C. Esslemont)
The Bonehunters (SE)
Reaper's Gale (SE)
Return of the Crimson Guard (ICE)
Toll the Hounds (SE)
Stonewielder (ICE)
Dust of Dreams (SE)
The Crippled God (SE)
Orb, Sceptre, Throne (ICE)
Blood and Bones (ICE)
Assail (ICE)

As you can see from this list, your approach basically meant that you cut out 14 books of often vital plotline information, spanning nearly a decade of time (if not more). This is bound to cause anyone a modicum of confusion.

Let us know how you get on with Deadhouse Gates and feel free to ask any questions. I'd recommend sticking to the subforums of each individual book to avoid spoilers. You're also better off asking things here than searching Google for information, as again you'll risk getting spoilered. We'll be more than happy to answer any issues that you run into.

I hope you'll enjoy DG more than you did GotM. The book should be a bit less confusing and a bit more structured than GotM and it will set up lots of great events. And don't worry if a lot of the people that you read about in GotM don't show up in DG. In Memories of Ice, the third novel, you will revisit the cast members from GotM that do not appear in DG.

[RACHEL]

I agree with everyone on here that you need to start from the beginning and read at least Deadhouse Gates before you give up. I have to say that I am shocked at your approach to reading the series. You didn't really like book one so you decided to skip to the middle to see if it improved? This makes no sense to me because I can't imagine this working with any book series out there. Even if you find the subject matter is more interesting or the writing is improved you are going to be totally lost on anything covered in previous book while also spoiling numerous plot points. I hope you start back at the beginning and enjoy it as much as I did. In your first post you mentioned that it suspended your belief a little to imagine so many plot lines were occurring at the same time. I think a lot of that was the fact that you skipped ahead waaaay to much and had missed too much of the story to understand, but if you get bogged down by too many plotlines you may not like this series.

[Keysi]

I looked forward to this book the most. Out of the ICE books at least. Was very disappointed. His writing had picked up by Stonewielder and was very good by OST. Sadly B&B is back to poor.
Luckily I've just finished the prologue or introduction of Assail and the writing seems back on form so far.

[Nevyn]

edit: should have read the whole thread first

This post has been edited by Nevyn: 09 February 2018 - 07:25 PM