[nicetrout]

I'm Back!

Had to read War and Peace before I continued the Malazan Journey but I'm back and had a fucking blast reading Night of Knives.

Now let me first say I understand that Temper and Kiska are broad characters and I don't know if they are strong enough to carry the story. I do think both of them are fairly warm blankets to be wrapped in and Temper's POV into Dassem's fall at Y'ghatan was a fun treat I was not expecting.

I understand that I think knowing the outcome of the book and what happens to the major players does remove some tension from the plot.

I understand that sometimes the pacing gets a little wonky.

BUT I could not help but have a blast reading this book. I wouldn't say it's better than any of 1-7 in the main series, the only one's I've read so far. The reason I think I had such a blast I think was because NoK removed the struggle that I am often mired in when I'm reading the books. I was returned to a setting I knew, with so few characters and I knew almost all of them. The world was so small compared to normal, one city and one warren. They were essentially no rules to learn when reading the book and most of the time an off handed reference was made I also understood that. Removing the struggle, not necessarily bad but just a struggle, provided just the most refreshing Malazan experience

Are the other ICE books this withdrawn in terms of scope?
Everybody says they get better but what does this mean?

I plan on reading Return of the Crimson Guard and then finishing the series proper, although first I'm hiking the Appalachian Trail!

[Abyss]

nicetrout, on 16 March 2017 - 01:50 PM, said:

...Are the other ICE books this withdrawn in terms of scope?
Everybody says they get better but what does this mean?

The scope of the rest of ICE's books is closer to SE's, really. Massive sprawling parallel stories with multiple pov type doorstoppers.
I really enjoyed them, i think most Malazfans will agree, tho opinions definitely vary.

The 'they get better' thing... i'd guess that's reflecting the thought that ICE has gradually improved as his books have rolled out.
His latest, DANCER'S LAMENT, was truly great (and mildly narrower in scope than RETURN through ASSAIL) and the groupthink, to the extent that i would ever presume to represent the opinions of people whose brains i haven't at least partially eaten / downloaded / grown / transplanted, was that it was his best yet.

Really, you have to make up your own mind, but if you like the Malazan world that even if RETURN doesnt blow your mind (tho i think parts of it should) it's worth carrying on with ICE's books to get the rest of the story/stories and give him a chance to do so.

Quote

I plan on reading Return of the Crimson Guard and then finishing the series proper, although first I'm hiking the Appalachian Trail!

You have some awesome reading, and hiking, ahead of you!

[Dolmen 2.0]

ICE getting better is a matter of perspective. I enjoyed his early books echoing your own experience. I picked them up around the time I got a hold of Reapers Gale. I think Return is to ICE what Memory of Ice was to Erikson, a standout story told in just the right way. You will definately enjoy the account of the Guardsmen. I enjoyed Stonewielder alot less but it was still a good read and OST was a bit of a mixed bag. I didnt enjoy certain parts. Possibly hated others but as a whole I liked the advance in story and enjoyed ICE's narrative development aswell.

The books are a matter of love at this point and if you enjoyed Knight of Knives you will enjoy the rest alot more and I feel struggle far less once you complete the main story arc.

[Abberon]

I know this is thread necro but the forums aren't very active anymore so I thought what the hay.


As far as I'm concerned, I found that NoK and RtCG were actually far superior to SE's later books in terms of actual story and writing. ICE still hasn't come near DG or MT, and in neither of those books did he match some of the convergences we saw like in TTH or MoI, but he sticks to a concise story and his books get proper editing. Aside from GotM and DG, SE's books are just stuffed to the brim with plot tangents and literally hundreds of pages of filler. His philosophical meandering has been a subject for endless debate on these forums, so I'll not go into it too much, but I really don't think it's good stuff. I fully regretted reading TTH (even with the awesome ending) and DoD was by a long shot the worst book I've ever finished.

[Silencer]

Abberon, on 01 August 2017 - 06:10 PM, said:

I know this is thread necro but the forums aren't very active anymore so I thought what the hay.


As far as I'm concerned, I found that NoK and RtCG were actually far superior to SE's later books in terms of actual story and writing. ICE still hasn't come near DG or MT, and in neither of those books did he match some of the convergences we saw like in TTH or MoI, but he sticks to a concise story and his books get proper editing. Aside from GotM and DG, SE's books are just stuffed to the brim with plot tangents and literally hundreds of pages of filler. His philosophical meandering has been a subject for endless debate on these forums, so I'll not go into it too much, but I really don't think it's good stuff. I fully regretted reading TTH (even with the awesome ending) and DoD was by a long shot the worst book I've ever finished.

Heh, ironically I felt the opposite about ICE's work - poorly edited and much less well written. Then again, I stopped reading after RotCG because his "and then THIS happened" syndrome annoyed me far more than it should have. Probably doesn't help that a lot of the things he wrote about were way more epic when left to the realms of myth and whispered secrets. I enjoyed Night of Knives a lot, but RotCG was like a pale imitation of SE.
Though I haven't read them yet, I get the impression from a lot of other readers that one of the reasons ICE "gets better" over the next couple of his works is a mix of him growing his own voice and becoming a more accomplished author - and that's not to say RotCG was bad, but it's pretty hard to rank well in comparison to an author who had at the time published like 7 full books and most of the quirks and stutters of GotM were long forgotten. But really, it's meant to be apples and oranges to an extent and that's where I found RotCG suffered - because it was almost like it was trying to be more like SE than ICE should have been aiming for. But I'll grant that's fairly subjective.

[Abberon]

I get that ICE's actual writing style is a bit rough in these books, but the actual story progressed neatly and I found it interesting. It didn't veer off in a dozen directions that never go anywhere and it didn't spend 100's of pages contemplating the world For that reason alone I'd say RotCG was better written than most of TTH and DoD - both of which were mostly unbearable to me. I literally gave up on MBotF after DoD, so I haven't read anything of ICE since then either, but if he's been elevating his game then I'd be interested in checking it out.

[nicetrout]

Agreed with Abberon. (Sorry I'm returning only now, I was hiking the AT) I think what Is most appreciated is the brevity in the ICE books. I finished ROTCG while on trail and enjoyed that one a lot. Individual chapters in the ICE books seem to have a type of plot cohesion that is often lacking in chapters of the SE books for me. I like both, I just find i think that the ICE books are less esoteric in a way that can be a refreshing change of pace from the SE books.