Malazan Empire: Togg, Fanderay and Treach relation - Malazan Empire

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Togg, Fanderay and Treach relation

#1 User is offline   Kashman 

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 08:39 PM

Actually I just finished Bonehunters, but I have this question for a long time. One time I read that Treach became new God of War, other that Togg/Fanderay are, so how is it ? Is Treach "hunter" as I read on malazan wiki (are there many mistakes btw ?) or who ? Also about K'rul... ife he created warrens, then lost his power, shouldn't warrens become... weaker or something ?

This post has been edited by Kashman: 13 December 2016 - 08:43 PM

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#2 User is offline   Aptorian 

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 09:28 PM

Gods/ascendants seem to be able to appear multiple places in the deck/assume multiple roles. Especially if we're mixing Holds and Houses.

K'rul is complicated. Part of what he did anchored the Houses to Burn, so she gives them some kind of permanence. There's also another important factor that pertains to the source of magic that is a later book spoiler so I wont get into that here.
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#3 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:04 AM

I moved this thread to The Bonehunters, as the information about Trake's new positioning in the Deck as the Hunter and whatnot comes from The Bonehunters (and Kashman says he has finished it, so it should be okay).

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#4 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:13 AM

So Fener was the God of War until Deadhouse Gates, when Heboric accidentally brought him down to the mortal plane and he basically lost the position. People were saying that Trake would become the new God of War in Memories of Ice, and he seemed to be on that track with Gruntle as Mortal Sword and such. However, Togg and Fanderay taking over the Beast Throne may have sort of... interrupted that?

It seems like with so much big war going on and many beastial Ascendants rising up to more prominent positions, it's almost like there are now many Gods of War. And now in The Bonehunters it seems like Ganoes Paran, as Master of the Deck, has decided to cement things a bit more strongly by creating the House of War, giving Togg and Fanderay (Lords), Trake (Hunter), and even the Bridgeburners (Guardians of the Dead) a Deck card to represent them.

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#5 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:36 AM

There are multiple gods whose aspects are war.
Trake was set to replace Fener as God of War within the Malazan pantheon when Togg and Fancytail (re)ascended and took the Beast Throne(s), while Paran blessed the House of War, so the pantheon and Deck shifted.

Fener lost his spot (not his aspect, there's a difference), Trake became 'Hunter', and the more powerful Togg and Fanderay became whatever you call Wolves who are also rulers of a House/Hold. By all appearances, Trake and the Wolves were already aspected to War to some degree, and being a soletaken and Elder Beasts respectively, the Beast Hood as well.
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#6 User is offline   Hairshirt 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 02:27 PM

View PostD, on 14 December 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

So Fener was the God of War until Deadhouse Gates, when Heboric accidentally brought him down to the mortal plane and he basically lost the position. People were saying that Trake would become the new God of War in Memories of Ice, and he seemed to be on that track with Gruntle as Mortal Sword and such. However, Togg and Fanderay taking over the Beast Throne may have sort of... interrupted that?

It seems like with so much big war going on and many beastial Ascendants rising up to more prominent positions, it's almost like there are now many Gods of War. And now in The Bonehunters it seems like Ganoes Paran, as Master of the Deck, has decided to cement things a bit more strongly by creating the House of War, giving Togg and Fanderay (Lords), Trake (Hunter), and even the Bridgeburners (Guardians of the Dead) a Deck card to represent them.


Were the Bridgeburners in the House of War? For some reason I always thought it was House of Death.
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#7 User is offline   Glass Desert 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 04:31 PM

View PostHairshirt, on 14 December 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostD, on 14 December 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

So Fener was the God of War until Deadhouse Gates, when Heboric accidentally brought him down to the mortal plane and he basically lost the position. People were saying that Trake would become the new God of War in Memories of Ice, and he seemed to be on that track with Gruntle as Mortal Sword and such. However, Togg and Fanderay taking over the Beast Throne may have sort of... interrupted that?

It seems like with so much big war going on and many beastial Ascendants rising up to more prominent positions, it's almost like there are now many Gods of War. And now in The Bonehunters it seems like Ganoes Paran, as Master of the Deck, has decided to cement things a bit more strongly by creating the House of War, giving Togg and Fanderay (Lords), Trake (Hunter), and even the Bridgeburners (Guardians of the Dead) a Deck card to represent them.


Were the Bridgeburners in the House of War? For some reason I always thought it was House of Death.



These were the most famed company in the armies of the biggest empire in the world. Also they didn't have much relation or interaction with hood IIRC.
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#8 User is offline   Hairshirt 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:57 PM

View PostGlass Desert, on 14 December 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

View PostHairshirt, on 14 December 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostD, on 14 December 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

So Fener was the God of War until Deadhouse Gates, when Heboric accidentally brought him down to the mortal plane and he basically lost the position. People were saying that Trake would become the new God of War in Memories of Ice, and he seemed to be on that track with Gruntle as Mortal Sword and such. However, Togg and Fanderay taking over the Beast Throne may have sort of... interrupted that?

It seems like with so much big war going on and many beastial Ascendants rising up to more prominent positions, it's almost like there are now many Gods of War. And now in The Bonehunters it seems like Ganoes Paran, as Master of the Deck, has decided to cement things a bit more strongly by creating the House of War, giving Togg and Fanderay (Lords), Trake (Hunter), and even the Bridgeburners (Guardians of the Dead) a Deck card to represent them.


Were the Bridgeburners in the House of War? For some reason I always thought it was House of Death.



These were the most famed company in the armies of the biggest empire in the world. Also they didn't have much relation or interaction with hood IIRC.


Have you finished the series?

This post has been edited by Hairshirt: 14 December 2016 - 08:59 PM

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#9 User is offline   Glass Desert 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 07:33 PM

View PostHairshirt, on 14 December 2016 - 05:57 PM, said:

View PostGlass Desert, on 14 December 2016 - 04:31 PM, said:

View PostHairshirt, on 14 December 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostD, on 14 December 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

So Fener was the God of War until Deadhouse Gates, when Heboric accidentally brought him down to the mortal plane and he basically lost the position. People were saying that Trake would become the new God of War in Memories of Ice, and he seemed to be on that track with Gruntle as Mortal Sword and such. However, Togg and Fanderay taking over the Beast Throne may have sort of... interrupted that?

It seems like with so much big war going on and many beastial Ascendants rising up to more prominent positions, it's almost like there are now many Gods of War. And now in The Bonehunters it seems like Ganoes Paran, as Master of the Deck, has decided to cement things a bit more strongly by creating the House of War, giving Togg and Fanderay (Lords), Trake (Hunter), and even the Bridgeburners (Guardians of the Dead) a Deck card to represent them.


Were the Bridgeburners in the House of War? For some reason I always thought it was House of Death.



These were the most famed company in the armies of the biggest empire in the world. Also they didn't have much relation or interaction with hood IIRC.


Have you finished the series?

<< edited out >>


Nups, OUCH.

This post has been edited by D'rek: 14 December 2016 - 09:39 PM

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#10 User is offline   D'rek 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 08:17 PM

View PostHairshirt, on 14 December 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

View PostD, on 14 December 2016 - 04:13 AM, said:

So Fener was the God of War until Deadhouse Gates, when Heboric accidentally brought him down to the mortal plane and he basically lost the position. People were saying that Trake would become the new God of War in Memories of Ice, and he seemed to be on that track with Gruntle as Mortal Sword and such. However, Togg and Fanderay taking over the Beast Throne may have sort of... interrupted that?

It seems like with so much big war going on and many beastial Ascendants rising up to more prominent positions, it's almost like there are now many Gods of War. And now in The Bonehunters it seems like Ganoes Paran, as Master of the Deck, has decided to cement things a bit more strongly by creating the House of War, giving Togg and Fanderay (Lords), Trake (Hunter), and even the Bridgeburners (Guardians of the Dead) a Deck card to represent them.


Were the Bridgeburners in the House of War? For some reason I always thought it was House of Death.


In The Bonehunters, when Fiddler is describing the new cards in his Deck, the description of the Guardians of the Dead sounds a lot like the Bridgeburners... and then Gesler/Stormy comment "recognize any faces Fid?"

View Postworrywort, on 14 September 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

I kinda love it when D'rek unleashes her nerd wrath, as I knew she would here. Sorry innocent bystanders, but someone's gotta be the kindling.
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#11 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 08:47 PM

There's no reason for that spoiler to even exist in this thread, hidden or not. All it does is reveal important information any reader will get to eventually anyway.
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#12 User is offline   Kashman 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 11:27 PM

Okay, I quess i have to read some more, the thing that there may be multiple gods of war is somehow helpful. But what about beast - war thing ? It seems like for being god of war you have to also be... beast ?
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#13 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 11:50 PM

It's definitely interesting. What do you think about it?
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#14 User is offline   MTS 

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 11:54 PM

View PostKashman, on 14 December 2016 - 11:27 PM, said:

Okay, I quess i have to read some more, the thing that there may be multiple gods of war is somehow helpful. But what about beast - war thing ? It seems like for being god of war you have to also be... beast ?

Its perhaps meant to represent the 'primal' nature of war and battle - the ultimate fight for survival. At least that's how I interpreted it.
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#15 User is offline   Kashman 

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Posted 15 December 2016 - 04:32 PM

View Postdeath rattle, on 14 December 2016 - 11:50 PM, said:

It's definitely interesting. What do you think about it?


Whew, for some time I was confused whether the Shadow Throne and the First Throne were the same thing, so I am sceptical about that ;-), but probably MTS is right here. But If it's not the same then at least they are something like two elements of the same aspect.
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#16 User is offline   PLUGO 

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 12:15 AM

I forget if it's in The Bonehunters or the book after, where some characters are musing on the original nature of war in relation to predators fighting for dominance over hunting grounds . . . and their willingness to forge alliances along the way. i mention it as that conversation seemed to reinforce some of the ideas about multiple beasts acting as gods of war.
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#17 User is offline   Abyss 

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 03:50 AM

View PostKashman, on 15 December 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

View Postdeath rattle, on 14 December 2016 - 11:50 PM, said:

It's definitely interesting. What do you think about it?


Whew, for some time I was confused whether the Shadow Throne and the First Throne were the same thing, so I am sceptical about that ;-), but probably MTS is right here. But If it's not the same then at least they are something like two elements of the same aspect.



beyond the ' Krul created the warrens' thing, I doubt it.
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#18 User is offline   Kashman 

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Posted 16 December 2016 - 04:22 PM

View PostAbyss, on 16 December 2016 - 03:50 AM, said:

View PostKashman, on 15 December 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

View Postdeath rattle, on 14 December 2016 - 11:50 PM, said:

It's definitely interesting. What do you think about it?


Whew, for some time I was confused whether the Shadow Throne and the First Throne were the same thing, so I am sceptical about that ;-), but probably MTS is right here. But If it's not the same then at least they are something like two elements of the same aspect.



beyond the ' Krul created the warrens' thing, I doubt it.


I see warrens as a later version of holds (which they are) and both of them are for me only representation of nature's aspects. K'rul created Warren of Fire, but not the fire itself, so it makes sense as that.
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