[Glass Desert]

Crokus Younghand: most useless characters in the books, turned a promising charater like sorry into a waste of time.

Ganoes Paran: mr silver platter...captain of the bridgeburners, master of the deck, retired wihin one or two years of service (at least initially), ascendant. would be nice to see him earn something for a change.

mhybe: no need to expand i presume.

silverfox: a mix of five personalities, or six...okkay lets count --tattersail, nightchill, bellurdan, mhybe's daughter, pran chole's flesh and blood imass daughter...overzealous much?

Udinaas: the character does have some purpose, but pov is boring, at least in MT.

This post has been edited by Glass Desert: 12 December 2016 - 11:04 PM

[Aptorian]

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran: mr silver platter...captain of the bridgeburners, master of the deck, retired wihin one or two years of service (at least initially), ascendant. would be nice to see him earn something for a change.

Being Cap of the Bridge Burners is more of a kick in the balls than a boon. As for earning the position, in times of war, officers are assigned where they are needed. Not according to what they deserve.

Being Master of the Deck is likewise an unenviable position unless you are power hungry asshole. That Paran was chosen for the position of Master of the Deck suggests that he was indeed deserving of the post. As a mere mortal human I do not see how you can question the judgement of Elder Gods and an abstract power structure of cards. Similarly, we're talking about a guy who survived being chased by Hounds of Shadow, getting stabbed by a God, taken a trip through Dragnipur, a half-Soletaken stubborn asshole.

I think he was good choice.

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

mhybe: no need to expand i presume.

There's a lot of need to expand. Think about the role the Mhybe played in Memories of Ice? She ended up becoming the Mhybe for an entire afterworld of the T'lan Imass. She has the Beast Hold anchored within her dreams. Introducing her and letting us experience her pain helped to make her ending a poignant transformation.

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

silverfox: a mix of five personalities, or six...okkay lets count --tattersail, nightchill, bellurdan, mhybe's daughter, pran chole's flesh and blood imass daughter...overzealous much?

This complaint is like being angry with the child of a famous person or a person of power/politics. They can't help who their parents are.

Silverfox is not so much a person as a tool. She was specifically made to fulfill a purpose. The only personalities in her as far as we hear is Tattersail, Bellurdan and Nightchill. There is no daughter of the Mhybe or Pran Chole in her because she is a vessel. Not a human child. As far as I recall there is no mention of any other souls in her than the three she was made to house.

[Glass Desert]

Apt, on 12 December 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

mhybe: no need to expand i presume.

There's a lot of need to expand. Think about the role the Mhybe played in Memories of Ice? She ended up becoming the Mhybe for an entire afterworld of the T'lan Imass. She has the Beast Hold anchored within her dreams. Introducing her and letting us experience her pain helped to make her ending a poignant transformation.

"She ended up becoming the Mhybe for an entire afterworld of the T'lan Imass"

And how is that important within the context of this series? The significance is at best perfunctory.

"She has the Beast Hold anchored within her dreams"

Or this?

The endng tries to provide some salvation for the sluggish arc, but it didn't feel rewarding.

[Glass Desert]

Apt, on 12 December 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

Ganoes Paran: mr silver platter...captain of the bridgeburners, master of the deck, retired wihin one or two years of service (at least initially), ascendant. would be nice to see him earn something for a change.

Being Cap of the Bridge Burners is more of a kick in the balls than a boon. As for earning the position, in times of war, officers are assigned where they are needed. Not according to what they deserve.

Being Master of the Deck is likewise an unenviable position unless you are power hungry asshole. That Paran was chosen for the position of Master of the Deck suggests that he was indeed deserving of the post. As a mere mortal human I do not see how you can question the judgement of Elder Gods and an abstract power structure of cards. Similarly, we're talking about a guy who survived being chased by Hounds of Shadow, getting stabbed by a God, taken a trip through Dragnipur, a half-Soletaken stubborn asshole.

I think he was good choice.

A good choice for what? that's not the question, the question is does the character feel rewarding?

My point being, as the first central character in the series he could be more relatable, sure he had his share of adventures, but cap of the bridgeburners and master of the deck starting out didn't help in that regard, now if he were to be merged with crokus ...

"As a mere mortal human I do not see how you can question the judgement of Elder Gods"

again i can't see the relevance of this.

This post has been edited by Glass Desert: 12 December 2016 - 04:23 PM

[Aptorian]

Quote

again i can't see the relevance of this.

You said:

Quote

would be nice to see him earn something for a change.

Earning something implies having done something of worth or being a person of worth. The examples I provided above, answer both what Paran has done to deserve being the Master as well as saying why he was chosen.

K'rull knows and sees much more than we, the readers, do. For all we know Paran was born to be the Master of the Deck.

[Glass Desert]

Apt, on 12 December 2016 - 04:16 PM, said:

Quote

again i can't see the relevance of this.

You said:

Quote

would be nice to see him earn something for a change.

Earning something implies having done something of worth or being a person of worth. The examples I provided above, answer both what Paran has done to deserve being the Master as well as saying why he was chosen.

K'rull knows and sees much more than we, the readers, do. For all we know Paran was born to be the Master of the Deck.

You are missing my point, which is, does the character feel rewarding?

just my personal opinion, for example, i like fiddler.

This post has been edited by Glass Desert: 12 December 2016 - 04:25 PM

[Aptorian]

The Mary Sue of the Malazan universe?

Like you say it's probably a matter of taste and patience. Personally I found the passages about the Mhybe tedious but in retrospect, at a distance, I respect what Erikson was doing in telling her story.

[Glass Desert]

Apt, on 12 December 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

silverfox: a mix of five personalities, or six...okkay lets count --tattersail, nightchill, bellurdan, mhybe's daughter, pran chole's flesh and blood imass daughter...overzealous much?

This complaint is like being angry with the child of a famous person or a person of power/politics. They can't help who their parents are.

what?

i do believe the imass part of her heritage acts more as a passive personality, but again, it seems we are discussing different subjects my friend.

[Glass Desert]

Apt, on 12 December 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

The Mary Sue of the Malazan universe?

Which one, paran? preferably not, just more likeable.

[Aptorian]

You need to learn the art of multi-quoting.

If you put these

[quote][/quote]

around a sentence you can have as many quotes as you like in one post.
It makes it less disjointed to have a conversation.

[worry]

Udinaas is the greatest character in all of literature.

[Puck]

Preganancies in reverse? What are preganancies in reverse?

[Glass Desert]

Quote

Preganancies in reverse? What are preganancies in reverse?

*shrug* forced pregnancy - pregnancy caused by rape
in reverse - when female goddess is the culprit *shrug*

This post has been edited by Glass Desert: 12 December 2016 - 11:12 PM

[Puck]

That still explains exactly nothing. If you mean PREGNANCIES in reverse, then you might want to take a course in biology. Males are not inherently more often the inducers of pregnancies, as it takes two people to make a third. If your argument is that males induce pregnancies by forcing themselves on females, you might also want to look into how societies work, and think about what you are actually saying.

That said, a true pregnancy in reverse would be a baby going from birth back in time to conception, which, as far as I remember, does not happen one single time in the series. And if by pregnancy in reverse you mean that, shock and horror, in this series some women take steps to make babies wothout waiting for a man to take action, then, well, welcome to the real world. And also the world of teh Malazan Empire, which is equal opportunity in all regards.

Also, forced pregnancy does NOT equal pregnancy in reverse. If the underlying thought would not be so sad, it'd be hilarious.

This post has been edited by Puck: 12 December 2016 - 10:26 PM

[Glass Desert]

Puck, on 12 December 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

That still explains exactly nothing. If you mean PREGNANCIES in reverse, then you might want to take a course in biology. Males are not inherently more often the inducers of pregnancies, as it takes two people to make a third. If your argument is that males induce pregnancies by forcing themselves on females, you might also want to look into how societies work, and think about what you are actually saying.

That said, a true pregnancy in reverse would be a baby going from birth back in time to conception, which, as far as I remember, does not happen one single time in the series. And if by pregnancy in reverse you mean that, shock and horror, in this series some women take steps to make babies wothout waiting for a man to take action, then, well, welcome to the real world. And also the world of teh Malazan Empire, which is equal opportunity in all regards.

Also, forced pregnancy does NOT equal pregnancy in reverse. If the underlying thought would not be so sad, it'd be hilarious.

this is getting off topic so...

forced pregnancy - pregnancy caused by rape, male to female

the 'in reverse' part was tongue in cheek, referring to the women being the culprit.

example:

Menandore and Udinaas
Eres'al and Bottle, cant remember if pregnancy was involved.

was there a third?

Quote

"forced pregnancy does NOT equal pregnancy in reverse"

very astute of you.

This post has been edited by Glass Desert: 14 December 2016 - 07:20 PM

[Puck]

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 10:58 PM, said:

Puck, on 12 December 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

That still explains exactly nothing. If you mean PREGNANCIES in reverse, then you might want to take a course in biology. Males are not inherently more often the inducers of pregnancies, as it takes two people to make a third. If your argument is that males induce pregnancies by forcing themselves on females, you might also want to look into how societies work, and think about what you are actually saying.

That said, a true pregnancy in reverse would be a baby going from birth back in time to conception, which, as far as I remember, does not happen one single time in the series. And if by pregnancy in reverse you mean that, shock and horror, in this series some women take steps to make babies wothout waiting for a man to take action, then, well, welcome to the real world. And also the world of teh Malazan Empire, which is equal opportunity in all regards.

Also, forced pregnancy does NOT equal pregnancy in reverse. If the underlying thought would not be so sad, it'd be hilarious.

[size="3"]this is getting off topic so...

forced pregnancy - when a man rapes a woman and impregnates her

the 'in reverse' part was tongue in cheek, referring to the women being the rapist.

You talked about 'preganancies in reverse'. I asked what you mean by that. If you mean forced, then say forced. Those words don't have the same meaning.

Also, rape is rape, no reason to call it anything else. Rape, btw. is not the only way to cause a forced pregnancy - neither in real life not in fiction. Thus, I repeat, all of those words you throw around then claim to be jokes are not interchengeable.

It's also not a joke, nor is it funny, even when a woman is the perpetrator. And that, exactly, is why there are 'preganancies in reverse' in these books - to show how it is all the same thing, in the end, the same traumatic, absolutely not funny experience, no matter whether a man or a woman is the aggressor.

This post has been edited by Puck: 12 December 2016 - 11:24 PM

[MTS]

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

Apt, on 12 December 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

mhybe: no need to expand i presume.

There's a lot of need to expand. Think about the role the Mhybe played in Memories of Ice? She ended up becoming the Mhybe for an entire afterworld of the T'lan Imass. She has the Beast Hold anchored within her dreams. Introducing her and letting us experience her pain helped to make her ending a poignant transformation.

[size="3"]"She ended up becoming the Mhybe for an entire afterworld of the T'lan Imass"

And how is that important within the context of this series? The significance is at best perfunctory.

This is called 'worldbuilding' and a 'sub-plot'. The Mhybe's story arc tells us a whole lot about the T'lan Imass as a group.

It's not significant in that it doesn't necessarily expand the central plotline of the series (you could add multiple subplots to that list), but that doesn't mean it doesn't have value within the story. The Mhybe reveals her significance in one of ICE's books anyway (chiefly in her creation of Silverfox), having been foreshadowed more than a decade in advance by SE in MoI.

[Glass Desert]

Puck, on 12 December 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 10:58 PM, said:

Puck, on 12 December 2016 - 10:25 PM, said:

That still explains exactly nothing. If you mean PREGNANCIES in reverse, then you might want to take a course in biology. Males are not inherently more often the inducers of pregnancies, as it takes two people to make a third. If your argument is that males induce pregnancies by forcing themselves on females, you might also want to look into how societies work, and think about what you are actually saying.

That said, a true pregnancy in reverse would be a baby going from birth back in time to conception, which, as far as I remember, does not happen one single time in the series. And if by pregnancy in reverse you mean that, shock and horror, in this series some women take steps to make babies wothout waiting for a man to take action, then, well, welcome to the real world. And also the world of teh Malazan Empire, which is equal opportunity in all regards.

Also, forced pregnancy does NOT equal pregnancy in reverse. If the underlying thought would not be so sad, it'd be hilarious.

[size="3"]this is getting off topic so...

forced pregnancy - when a man rapes a woman and impregnates her

the 'in reverse' part was tongue in cheek, referring to the women being the rapist.

You talked about 'preganancies in reverse'. I asked what you mean by that. If you mean forced, then say forced. Those words don't have the same meaning.

Also, rape is rape, no reason to call it anything else. Rape, btw. is not the only way to cause a forced pregnancy - neither in real life not in fiction. Thus, I repeat, all of those words you throw around then claim to be jokes are not interchengeable.

It's also not a joke, nor is it funny, even when a woman is the perpetrator. And that, exactly, is why there are 'preganancies in reverse' in these books - to show how it is all the same thing, in the end, the same traumatic, absolutely not funny experience, no matter whether a man or a woman is the aggressor.

I did say forced, mate. calm down.

Quote

Also, rape is rape, no reason to call it anything else

Why not? I have every reason not to use the term if I don't want to.

Quote

It's also not a joke, nor is it funny

Did I say it was funny? Are you sure?

you need to find something better to be angry about.

This post has been edited by Glass Desert: 13 December 2016 - 12:29 AM

[Glass Desert]

MTS, on 12 December 2016 - 11:39 PM, said:

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

Apt, on 12 December 2016 - 03:26 PM, said:

Glass Desert, on 12 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

mhybe: no need to expand i presume.

There's a lot of need to expand. Think about the role the Mhybe played in Memories of Ice? She ended up becoming the Mhybe for an entire afterworld of the T'lan Imass. She has the Beast Hold anchored within her dreams. Introducing her and letting us experience her pain helped to make her ending a poignant transformation.

[size="3"]"She ended up becoming the Mhybe for an entire afterworld of the T'lan Imass"

And how is that important within the context of this series? The significance is at best perfunctory.

This is called 'worldbuilding' and a 'sub-plot'. The Mhybe's story arc tells us a whole lot about the T'lan Imass as a group.

It's not significant in that it doesn't necessarily expand the central plotline of the series (you could add multiple subplots to that list), but that doesn't mean it doesn't have value within the story. The Mhybe reveals her significance in one of ICE's books anyway (chiefly in her creation of Silverfox), having been foreshadowed more than a decade in advance by SE in MoI.

The T'lan Imass dont enter the fray until the end, why not skip the whole tedious narrative. Not much world building going on in there.

This post has been edited by Glass Desert: 12 December 2016 - 11:59 PM

[worry]

World building sucks.