[rant]

Hi folks, long-time reader and lurker, first time poster. I started reading TCG again after FoL, and one of Hood's scenes got me thinking about Hood a lot ( not in anyway to be concerned about haha). To qualify, this isn't really a theory, just some thoughts I decided I wanted to share with other humans ( despite having discovered and read the series in 2011, I've yet to convince any of my friends to join the cult).

I've convinced myself that Hoods goal all along was not to eliminate death, but rather to make it possible to see your loved ones even after death (I don't know if this was obvious to anyone else, but I only just came to it). Below are some excerpts I think support this:

"He grieves for the silence that she now gives him, Arathan. I fear, in truth, that he will announce a war upon that silence. All to hear her speak again, one more time, one last time. He will, if he is able, shatter the peace of death itself". Gothos, pg 521, FoD ( I've just realized how tidy the acronyms are for this trilogy so far: FoD, FoL....hopefully the final title will change, I'd like that lol).

So Gothos believed that Hood just wanted to speak to Karish again (on a side note...have there been any other mentions of marriage among the Jaghut? I can't remember any. A good way of highlighting the relationship). Later, we hear from hood himself that:

"My enemy shall be the injustice of mortality" Hood, pg 522, FoD

This could devolve into philosophy and metaphysics pretty quickly, but I think when reading that line, you need to consider what exactly the injustice of mortality is. I think that Kallors existence in the Malazan world (particularly ICE's later novels) is a pretty strong argument against death being the injustice of mortality. Indeed, it would seem to be the opposite. There's a reason the Elder Gods cursed him with mortality un-ending. When you've lost all your loved ones, and just want to see or hear from them again, then death is probably a respite. Loss is the injustice of mortality. That and uncertainty. When we lose someone, we just don't really know where they've gone.

I'm unclear on this this, but in the malazan world, I'm pretty sure what comes after death isn't really discussed prior to Hood. What I mean to say is that, before Hoods war, death was an uncertain end ( I think maybe there are ghosts?). So Hood's great rebellion ( as I see it now) is to reject the uncertainty of loss. We know that in the common era (as I think of the malazan empire times) it is clear that everyone knows where their loved ones go when they die: either Hood's realm, or to their god of choice's feet (though I'm unclear on why (/ if actually) the gods started to gather their dead followers), which really addresses the injustice of mortality in my mind. Sure you'll lose your loved ones, but you know they'll be in Hoods realm, and can hope to find them there.

How Hood achieves that is quite beautiful to me. I can't remember where exactly in FoL, but there is a discussion (between Gothos and Arathan I think) in which the Gothos explains that as a jaghut dies, they slip into a timeless place before death ( I read this as being the equivalent of seeing one's life flash before their eyes). This is Hood's realm/the warren of death. He brings his army (and subsequently everyone who dies) into the last (though verrrrrrry prolonged) moment of his life.

So Hood kills himself, and (using the new sorcery) extends his (very private) moment of death forever, to everyone, to ensure noone ever again has to experience loss like his.

So, finally, Hoods betrayal that is referenced in earlier books (but later in the timeline), could be 1 of 2 things in my mind:
1) The betrayal stems from a complete misunderstanding. His army assumed he would kill death. Instead he lessened the pain of loss.

2) Hood refuses to allow anyone from his army to leave his realm. I think Hood understands the implications of the dead wandering the world, so he guards the borders of his realms with extreme prejudice. We've seen that people who escape from/ avoid his realm can then wander the world of the living (Hedge, Cartographer, Shurq Ellale), but it is rare. Can you imagine what would have happened if an entire army of undead were unleashed on the world at once (T'Lan Imass anyone? They wiped out an entire empire of humans at least once.....). So, all those people who follow him into his realm are betrayed when after they are beyond death, are then forced to remain beyond death, instead of returning to the land of the living.


I'm sure there are things I'm missing, give me your insights!

Misc. Other points:
1) I just remembered that the Jaghut had a conception of the afterlife before Hoods Realm
2)I'm re-re-re-reading Reapers Gale, and just found a throw-away-line from redmask in which he describes how the Awl language's word for Hoods Realm means not elder, but not new, which I thought was pretty cool.

[nacht]

There are some good points in the post. This is such a complicated topic though and it is hard to make a convincing case.

Some additional points that might be interesting to you.

When Hood entered Dragnipur, he bought a lot of souls with him and many of them were destroyed in the fight against chaos. Somewhere in TCG it is mentioned that Hood did this intentionally.

Most goods did not collect the souls of their followers and Hood collected these souls instead. There was a story told by Deadsmell (I think) where a priest of Fener died. Deadsmell was expecting Fener to collect his soul but Hood was the one who actually came. It seems that the role of Shield Anvil is related to this soul collection.

Lether is special in some manner. I think it was mentioned in TCG that (atleast in Lether) any soul can be brought back to the real world (like Shurq) but it was a very expensive process.

There are many examples of dead people coming back to life through magic (espcially god), such as Tool, Sandalath, Hedge, Talamandas. So a formula seems to be

Soul + Memories + Physical Form make a person

Sandalath - has all three above
Talamandas - Soul + Memories
T'lan Imass - Soul+ Memories + Deteriorating Body (which can be reassembled from Dust) - Maybe the body is actually moving in tellan.
Tool - Soul + Memory + Body assembled from all kinds of bones
Undead Che'Malle

[Amby Bole]

Well. Hood didn't die on this war, he was alive when Rake killed him with dragnipur and came back after Fener's death on the spire.

For me, what hood did, was create the realm of death himself. Lets say: K'rull forged his warrens right? Not every one of them fully accesible yet but after Draconus gift ( Terondai ) the doors were open ( Grizzin Farl told that ). Hood sensed this and saw the oportunity, before K'rull could seal the warren or asign a guardian, he usurped it and become the ruler of that warren. I'm thinking that his army was the sacrifice necesary to achieve godhood, I remember the 13 jagut calling him a traitor, that instead of diying like everyone else he took the throne.

[Grief]

Editted the title just because I felt it gave away quite an interesting reveal.

Cheers

-Grief.

[Embrasure of Folly]

Okay, this is a great theory, and very close to my own. I've a couple variations (and I'm way too new to this forum to mess about with a multi-quote attempt):

>He brings his army (and subsequently everyone who dies) into the last (though verrrrrrry prolonged) moment of his life. So Hood kills himself, and (using the new sorcery) extends his (very private) moment of death forever, to everyone, to ensure noone ever again has to experience loss like his.

Synthesize those two. In the above, Hood's Army serves no purpose. Rather, I believe that used that prolonged moment of death as a conflagration to shape a new warren. Using not only the force of his own moment, but that of the entire army. A vast army of Jaghut and Ascendents across the Races. All contributing their power, for Hood himself to shape and weave into an ultimate weapon against Death's Silence - which I interpret as most likely shaping the new Warren out of Chaos. I know there's a couple topics worth going into just in here, but it'd go wildly off topic.

I'm re-reading DoD right now, and in the previous book (?) Kallor's lecture by the Dragon about Hood's War really hit me. That their unspeakable power, courage, and tradgedy dropped Kallor of all people to his knees... man, that was intense.

And this is kinda cool-
> people who escape from/ avoid his realm can then wander the world of the living (Hedge, Cartographer, Shurq Ellale), but it is rare
Nifty cases. In order: Hedge - I don't think his movements in the land of the living are outside Hood's knowledge - and even approval - considering his relationship with Iskar Jarak. Cartogropher - also on Hood's errand. Shurq - double-whammy of necromancy (Hood's stamp of approval, mostly sorta kinda) and location. Lether is held back and removed from the rest of the world (and powers) in odd ways. Thanks Gothos.

*Really hoping I didn't cross any spoiler lines - I haven't figured out SP yet. I'll get on that.

[Andorion]

 Embrasure of Folly, on 05 December 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

Okay, this is a great theory, and very close to my own. I've a couple variations (and I'm way too new to this forum to mess about with a multi-quote attempt):

>He brings his army (and subsequently everyone who dies) into the last (though verrrrrrry prolonged) moment of his life. So Hood kills himself, and (using the new sorcery) extends his (very private) moment of death forever, to everyone, to ensure noone ever again has to experience loss like his.

Synthesize those two. In the above, Hood's Army serves no purpose. Rather, I believe that used that prolonged moment of death as a conflagration to shape a new warren. Using not only the force of his own moment, but that of the entire army. A vast army of Jaghut and Ascendents across the Races. All contributing their power, for Hood himself to shape and weave into an ultimate weapon against Death's Silence - which I interpret as most likely shaping the new Warren out of Chaos. I know there's a couple topics worth going into just in here, but it'd go wildly off topic.

I'm re-reading DoD right now, and in the previous book (?) Kallor's lecture by the Dragon about Hood's War really hit me. That their unspeakable power, courage, and tradgedy dropped Kallor of all people to his knees... man, that was intense.

And this is kinda cool-
> people who escape from/ avoid his realm can then wander the world of the living (Hedge, Cartographer, Shurq Ellale), but it is rare
Nifty cases. In order: Hedge - I don't think his movements in the land of the living are outside Hood's knowledge - and even approval - considering his relationship with Iskar Jarak. Cartogropher - also on Hood's errand. Shurq - double-whammy of necromancy (Hood's stamp of approval, mostly sorta kinda) and location. Lether is held back and removed from the rest of the world (and powers) in odd ways. Thanks Gothos.

*Really hoping I didn't cross any spoiler lines - I haven't figured out SP yet. I'll get on that.

I think I agree with you. Hood using the power of his army to craft sorcery necessary to create his warren - Hood's Path... its a huge epochal event and I wonder whether we will see it in Walk in Shadow.

[rant]

I've been thinking about this some more, and I agree with the consensus that emerged...but had a thought.

What if it was all accidental?

1) Hood kills himself and enters the Jaghut's last moment of life (a thought just occurred to me--could this final moment of life be the Jaghut Bridge of death?) , intending to prolong it forever as an FU to death.
1a) Krul makes his sacrifice....making the creation of new realms/holds/warrens possible.

2) People hear about Hood's great FU to death, interpret and believe it to be a war on death...and their beliefs start shaping....something
2a) Hood essentially loses control of what is happening.........but can still control when he finally 'passes over', thus effectively creating the realm of death...and eventually decides to pull the trigger to see what actually happens

I haven't quite reconciled the fact that Hood doesn't die, or what his betrayal would be....but I kind of like this idea. Given the type of humor that surrounds Jaghut and Hood in particular I think this fits with that. Also, I'm currently rereading FoD and will be on FoL in about a week.......I only vaguely remember this (so it could be false), but I think I remember Hood demonstrating a sense of incredulity at everything that was happening around him.