Understanding the terms: Mortal Sword, Destriant, and Shield Anvil

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Understanding the terms: Mortal Sword, Destriant, and Shield Anvil

#1 Guest_Starscream_*

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 04:41 AM

I was wondering if anyone could shed some light for me on the relationship of the people who take up these roles for say Fener or Treach. Do other gods have these ranks within or among their followers? Are they the same as the ranks in the High Houses, like are the Mortal Sword and Knight the same rank/person?

#2 Trotts

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 04:53 AM

no, i think mortal sword/shield anvil/destriant are particular to the god of war/summer (i.e. treach or fener)
i think that mortal sword and say knight would be similar ranks, but im not totally sure. its kind of confusing because, for example Hood, or Mother Dark, have houses (high house death, and high house dark) on the other hand i dont think ive ever seen any high house war. i dunno if that has any bearing.

hehe, im sure there are other people who can give a clearer explanation

#3 ObsoleteResolve

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 04:53 AM

I would say, based off of my understanding, that they aren't. These aren't, or don't seem to be, Houses in the sense that Shadow (with the King as Shadowthrone) or Dark or Light are Houses, which seem aspected to elemental powers, as opposed to a force like war. Especially in light of Treach's Sword, they seem to be more along the lines of physical manifestations of the god, without the whole bothersome "Oh damn, I'm a God and IDON'TWANNADIE." Nor do they get cards in the deck like Anomander, Knight of Dark, gets, or even the Unaligned like Oponn.

They seem more an extension of the god's will than anything else. Although they aren't entirely submerged, either.

While I would say that a Knight/Mortal Sword are comparable, it seems as if Knights/Champions (Dark: Anomander; Light: Osseric) are of a higher caliber than the Mortal Swords- who are just that, mortals bequeathed powers, rather than huge, soletaken Eleints.

People like Anomander and Osseric seem to be, because of their relationship with Tiam, already immortal.

The comparison, for me, that comes to mind would be something like a First Sword- like T'ool or Dassem. An incredibly skilled mortal who, through sheer outstandingness, rises above.

.david

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!"- Kurt Vonnegut

#4 Guest_Starscream_*

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 05:19 AM

Quote

The comparison, for me, that comes to mind would be something like a First Sword- like T'ool or Dassem. An incredibly skilled mortal who, through sheer outstandingness, rises above.

But Dassem was once Knight in High House Death. Was he a soketaken or whatever they're called like Rake?

#5 ObsoleteResolve

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 05:45 AM

You're right. But, we don't know much about Dassem, only that's he's a bad-ass. So, maybe, maybe not. I guess my comparison was off.

I plead insomnia and exhaustion.

.david

"Say what you will about the sweet miracle of unquestioning faith, I consider a capacity for it terrifying and absolutely vile!"- Kurt Vonnegut

#6 kettle

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Posted 08 August 2005 - 10:40 AM

The positions in a house are normaly taken by an ascended being, ie Rake/Knight of HHD and Osseric/Champion of HHL, where as a Mortal Sword is still a mortal being, through who the will of his/her god acts, Gruntle was empowered by Trake when fighting, he was also changed by this contact ie the barbed tattoo's, and the same would have been true of Feners Mortal Sword.

as to the position of Mortal Sword it can be in any house I would think, both Fener and Trake were unaligned ascendants and had/have Mortal Swords, Toc/Anaster is the Mortal Sword of Tog and Fanderay the rulers of the Hold of Beasts, and Gethol when talking to Kallor said that the CG's Mortal Sword had been found on a distant continent....

hope this helps

#7 garden_rake

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Posted 09 August 2005 - 10:04 PM

in my humble opinion, i think the titles of mortal sword destriant and sheild anvil are only concerned with the god(s) of war because they are directly linked to various aspects of war in particular, as opposed to life in general. for example mortal sword concerning mortal combat, destriant concerning healing wounds and sheild anvil for those who fall in battle. These 3 aspects are more relevant to a god of war than to a house with the huge scope of high house light/dark/shadow etc. Therefore it is possible that the 3 positions arose from the needs of their god when fighting wars...........

#8 Guest_Ruaidhri_*

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Posted 10 August 2005 - 05:47 AM

garden_rake said:

I like this idea to a point. I took the three important "war cult" ranks to be a kind of boon from the particular god, like extensions of the god's power for the purpose of maintaining a) the god's following, since they act as priests, in a way, and

the purpose of the war cult (to wage war).

I looked at the Mortal Sword (in the superorganized Grey Swords, not Gruntle's more informal band) as being their "pope" with the Shield Anvil and Destriant a close second and third. They are all, basically, the divinely chosen representatives of their god.

#9 Guest_poison_fox_*

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 04:28 PM

I get the feeling that Mortal swords etc are mainly for the more bestial warrens, ie holds. For example, high house shadow is thought to have been a hold originaly (before becoming a house) because of the difference in structure to the other houses (light, dark, death, life). So perhaps it is mearly a different structure by which the war orientated gods operate, Fener being a boar (soletaken? don't know), Trake being a tiger (soletaker but not had a human thought in centuries), Togg/Fanderay being wolves (always been wolves).

#10 Iron Bars

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Posted 09 October 2005 - 05:10 PM

I don't consider this a spoiler because it doesn't concern the main series of Malazen but in Blood Follows the Mortal Sword of the QoD makes his apearence.

So it would seem that every god can have a Mortal Sword. I think the title is a sort of blessing by the god to asure their champion has more power in battle.

#11 Guest_Shaar_*

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Posted 11 October 2005 - 07:51 AM

It's mentioned somewhere in MoI (by Quick Ben I think) that the titles Mortal Sword etc predate the Houses (and their titles). This implies that all gods, while they may lack a house, may have mortal swords.

It seems reasonable that every god may have a champion and a high priest/pope, but shield anvil feels very connected to warfare. I don't think Burn or Soliel would have much use of one. They'd probably come up with some other useful position though.

#12 Guest_Varindweion_*

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Posted 15 October 2005 - 09:02 PM

poison_fox said:

But what about Dark and Light: they are also Elder Warrens, so are probably also more of a Hold than a House. Dark, as said in MoI, is even a wandering Warren (the gate is on a wagon in Dragnipur).
I also think that those three titles are something every god will decide for him/herself. With the Mortal Sword as the champion, sort of like Peter, the first pope, the Destriant as a miracle worker and the Shield Anvil as a sort of saint who absolves everyone in name of his god.