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The Red Clan

#1 User is offline   Not Noto 

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 03:00 PM

Just finished Assail.

And now that we know the Crimson Guard secret I wonder if Ammanas still holds the first throne?
If he does, shouldn't that make him the ruler over the Crimson Guard as well? The idea made me laugh :Rodeo:
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#2 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 03:40 PM

Ammanas never ruled all the T'lan Imass. He only controlled the Logros T'Lan Imass, probably due to their proximity to the throne, but the powers of the throne were already waning anyway. Also, it is unclear how the First Throne relates to the T'lan Imass. It appears to have been created around the same time as the original ritual of Tellann, which is not the same ritual that the CG were involved in. So it may only have a hold over the Imass, or just over the T'lan Imass that were part of the original ritual (there have been at least two more if you include the CG Vow), or it may be linked to the Tellann Hold itself in which case it might actually affect the CG a bit after all. But I don't think it was ever made clear in the books.
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#3 User is offline   Gorefest 

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 03:41 PM

CG as in Crimsion Guard of course, not KaminsodPosted Image
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#4 User is offline   Not Noto 

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 04:26 PM

Yeah, CG I get it :Rodeo:

It's just that it was some time ago I finished the Crip books and had to google the first throne.
From Malazan Wiki: The First Throne was the source of power of the T'lan Imass. Any mortal who sat upon it gained control of the armies of these undead warriors.

But ST is not even mortal anymore. But still, it would be fun if he took control over CG.
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#5 User is offline   Puck 

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 07:06 PM

View Postmungo112, on 04 July 2016 - 04:26 PM, said:

But ST is not even mortal anymore. But still, it would be fun if he took control over CG.


Which is why he cannot sit on the First Throne anymore, anyway, as he'd have to be mortal for that and lost his power over whatever T'lan Imass he had (pretty sure it weren't all of them, possibly only those who were close enough to the throne when he got to it, namely the Logros, as everyone else was off being busy elsewhere) when he became Shadowthrone.

Also, what would he do with the Crimson Guard, anyway? Other than tell them to stay the hell out of his business?

I couldn't say why, but I'd always had the feeling that Logros' T'lan Imass were never dead bound to Kellanved's word. They seemed to have at least some amount of autonomy. He could tell them to go places and do stuff, but they still had their own thing within their own group. Considering that Logros stripped Tool of his title of First Sword and bestowed it on Dassem Ultor instead, out of his own free will, I think a big part in why the Logros T'lan Imass followed Kellanved was because they wnted to/it was expedient for them. The problem ist that we simply do not know what the First Throne actually does. It may be as little as giving the one who sits on it the power to communicate with all T'lan Imass within reach and make them suspectible to his/her will.
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#6 User is offline   worry 

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Posted 04 July 2016 - 09:22 PM

There's also the fact that Silverfox is now the Summoner and there's a resurgence of the Beast Throne. I dunno if they supplant the First Throne, but I wouldn't be surprised. Especially if the First Throne is connected to the ritual, and everything about these latest events is about a way out. That, and the fact that the CG are supposed to have their own Summoner, makes me think the First Throne has no power over them.
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#7 User is offline   Soulcrusher 

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Posted 05 July 2016 - 04:32 AM

I do remember in perhaps The Bonehunters, the Imass guarding the first throne were ready to slap chop Onrack for offering to tell Cotillion how to restore the power of the first throne. So by that conversation there is obviously a way to restore it to it's former glory, whatever that was.
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Posted 05 July 2016 - 06:59 PM

The CGrd were never linked to the Throne. Their own Ritual was skewed because of its proximity to the site of the Imass' Tellann Ritual, but I think that there is otherwise no direct link between the two groups.

The Guard doesn't appear to even have a 'Throne' in the sense that the Imass or certain warrens do.

For a while I thought that the diadem Corlo was carrying back in MT might be the equivalent, but the flashbacks in BLOOD AND BONE and ASSAIL didn't make any ref to that and Corlo wasn't Avowed.
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Posted 20 August 2016 - 01:14 PM

Interesting. Many good answers.
But I still think it's possible. Thanks to Soulcrusher. If Cot knows ST knows.
Maybe he wants an undead army again? Who knows why he would do it? It's Shadowthrone 🙂

I have to re-read everything. I'm almost done with GotM. I like it even more now.

My first language is not English and it can be confusing some times. It's easier to pay attention to details this time.
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