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Brexit or bremain Will the UK leave the EU or not?

Poll: Bremain or brexit (61 member(s) have cast votes)

What would you vote

  1. Bremain (53 votes [86.89%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 86.89%

  2. Brexit (8 votes [13.11%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 13.11%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1361 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 08:38 AM

View PostGrief, on 12 January 2021 - 08:26 PM, said:

I think there's also an opposite tendency of Remainers to downplay the UK economically in discussions of Brexit.

For example, the UK is far from a tech laggard in European terms.

  • The UK has more jobs in the high-tech knowledge-intensive service sector than anywhere else in Europe.
  • The UK represents around 11.5% of global cross-border data flows; considerably more than its GDP.
  • London produces considerably more in terms of tech startups and tech funding than any other hub in Europe.

And so on.

When it comes to the tech sector the UK is generally ahead of its European rivals, mostly by a large distance.

Now we can also discuss digital infrastructure across the country more broadly. The most recent EU DESI ranking places the UK 8th, compared to Germany in 12th and France in 15th.

I'd agree that the perception of Germany and France running the EU contributed to Brexit though; especially because it's always easier to blame Europe for policy than admit that you were happy to accept or even pushed for that policy in Europe.


Let's consider that despite all of the above, the UK also has the majority of the most impoverished areas in the entire European region. Of which I live in the region crowned the most impoverished area overall, when last I checked. Cheers, Thatcher.

Of course that was contributory in itself because exceptionalism and the mentality that we are inherently better than mainlanders means that such poverty in the 21st century could never possibly be the work of domestic policy (namely austerity, which is just an egregious wealth transfer really). It has to be those dratted foreigners!

A lot of independent craft brewers are now no longer able to ship UK to EU (due to some form of prohibition on alcohol as I've read it) or EU to UK due to increased tax making it unprofitable. That said Breklets tend towards Carling and Stella so it won't really affect them,.



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#1362 User is offline   Tiste Simeon 

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 09:04 AM

That last sentence sums up the quitter thinking nicely. If it doesn't effect them, why should they care?

It will effect them of course, but in ways it'll be easier to blame others rather than admit they've made a colossal mistake.
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#1363 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 13 January 2021 - 12:57 PM

View PostTiste Simeon, on 13 January 2021 - 09:04 AM, said:

That last sentence sums up the quitter thinking nicely. If it doesn't effect them, why should they care?

It will effect them of course, but in ways it'll be easier to blame others rather than admit they've made a colossal mistake.


It will impact those who voted for it most vociferously to a disproportionate level as well - again using my local area as an example. We have hugely benefited from the regeneration fund - which is of course beyond reach now. Last thing Tories really did for us was... checking notebook... close the pits. The area was still recovering since then, and there's still a very high rate of things like teenage pregnancy, substance abuse and unemployment around here. Our own government realistically don't care about this area (as it isn't London) - it's a low income area as well so any increase in food prices at all will hit us hard.
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#1364 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 09:43 AM

Had a seminar on the immigration status of British citizens coming here to work ( we employ almost 3000 temp workers, mainly scientists in different positions) and a big slice of that number comes from the UK. Oh boy, this is not going to be fun. Not to mention, though we're not directly impacted by this, the hurdles for employees moving from a branch outside of the UK to a branch inside the UK, or vice versa. If only I had specialised in European employment law.
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#1365 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 10:19 AM

Not to mention the thousands of shift workers on your data centers and oil production/refining facilities
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#1366 User is offline   Morgoth 

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 11:58 AM

hah, yeah, our oil industry is having lots of fun right now I suspect.
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#1367 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 12:18 PM

Complete tangent here, but I'm wondering how those people who voted "Brexit" in the poll feel about it now, years later?

I voted "Bremain" and think that my feelings back then have been ... pretty much borne out.
It's been nothing short of a debacle, and if indeed in the long run it makes things better it won't be for a very, very long time, and it won't be by much.

And it has only just started after years of pissfarting about. This does not bode well.

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 20 January 2021 - 12:22 PM

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#1368 User is offline   Maark Abbott 

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Posted 20 January 2021 - 12:58 PM

View PostTsundoku, on 20 January 2021 - 12:18 PM, said:

Complete tangent here, but I'm wondering how those people who voted "Brexit" in the poll feel about it now, years later?

I voted "Bremain" and think that my feelings back then have been ... pretty much borne out.
It's been nothing short of a debacle, and if indeed in the long run it makes things better it won't be for a very, very long time, and it won't be by much.

And it has only just started after years of pissfarting about. This does not bode well.


A lot of them still think they voted correctly due to the exceptionalism / imperialism we discussed on a prior page.

At the end of the day, all Brexit came down to was giving the disadvantaged a scapegoat to direct their ire over Thatcherite neoliberalism towards (the EU) whilst simultaneously allowing the rich and their chums to dodge incoming tax legislation. I see absolutely no advantages to what's happened at all. It's just made every aspect of dealing with the continent more difficult for an island who are quite reliant on said mainland.

The Hives are making a comeback in this household.



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#1369 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 21 January 2021 - 07:51 AM

I would like to say a lot of them regret voting brexit. But as Mark says, a lot of people see the problems now as Europe mainland being a bunch of awkward shits and refuse to accept regardless of the deal this red tape and paperwork was going to happen.

A lot of problems are being airbrushed as Covid as well.

Unrest about the EU in a few other states doesn't help. Disregarding the fact that Italy's problems are financial ruin related and driven by right wing facists.

I think another part of the problem is they see China throwing money about willy Jilly around the world and becoming the leading driver that the UK and then the US were, and refuse to accept that Britain has made itself irrelevant on the global stage. Whats REALLY fucking dumb about that is separation from the EU and isolationism makes it more irrelevant at a time when countries all over Africa, Asia and the middle east are slowly (and very incrementally) making ties and improving international infrastructure, be it via the Belt and Road scheme or other.
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#1370 User is offline   Mezla PigDog 

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Posted 22 January 2021 - 10:39 PM

So here's a thing. I'm still monumentally anti-Brexit but if the UK had gone into the EU Commission covid vaccine plan then virtually nobody in the UK would have been vaccinated by now. We're looking at 5% or something having had first dose by today. The EU played it massively safe (dumb?) and are now essentially the back of the queue for supplies because they haven't approved many and the ones they did approve they didn't order enough of.

I don't know specifics but my best guess is that previous EU legislation would have allowed the UK government to go their own way anyway. And UK exceptionalism would have lead us to go our own way so we haven't lost anything but if I was a pro-Brexit UK politician I would be shouting this from the rooftops. I'm curious what is stopping them really.

And the reason the guys who voted Brexit in the poll in this thread aren't answering is because we liberal lefty remoaners have driven them out, right?
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#1371 User is offline   Tsundoku 

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 01:05 AM

Actually if you click on the list of people who voted, most of the people who voted for Brexit are still here at least semi-regularly.

Who voted for: Bremain
Gorefest , Traveller , Egwene , Primateus , Werthead , koehkont , Khellendros , Morgoth , worry , Coltaine - , Studlock , LinearPhilosopher , Khazduk , Tiste Simeon , Aptorian , Tapper , Imperial Historian , Lusipher , Dreydin , Nevyn , JPK , R3per_Inc , Mezla PigDog , Maark Abbott , Silencer , Vengeance , Wry , Cyphon , MrXIII , Andorion , Dolmen 2.0 , Avatar , Kanese S's , flea , Sheve , Tsundoku , masan's saddle , Solidsnape , sappers rule , Gothos , Hammerhead88 , Thelomen Toblerone , HoosierDaddy , Darkwatch , polishgenius , caladanbrood , Illuyankas , Lady Bliss , glasseye , Zaloopa , Avendris , Riot , amphibian

Who voted for: Brexit
champ , nacht , Tattersail_ , EmperorMagus , Macros , bubba , Battalion , Not Noto

Although I'm thinking maybe a couple of them were drunk clicks ...

:D

This post has been edited by Tsundoku: 23 January 2021 - 01:07 AM

"Fortune favors the bold, though statistics favor the cautious." - Indomitable Courteous (Icy) Fist, The Palace Job - Patrick Weekes

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#1372 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 08:30 AM

Ahem, my dad voted Brexit (and now is man enough to admit it was a mistake)
I was going to vote remain, but hadn't set up postal voting and wasn't able to get home to vote.

I was sold the brexit propaganda early doors but caught myself on
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#1373 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 08:31 AM

Oh you mean on the topic poll, like I said, early doors I swallowed the lies but soon figured out it was l bullshit
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#1374 User is offline   Macros 

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Posted 23 January 2021 - 08:33 AM

View PostMacros, on 22 June 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

Whilst I don't think there's a supergroup controlling the world like a bond film

I do think we're sliding inexorably into a global plutarchy.
Brexit/bremain. I don't think either result will affect my quality of life noticeably, I do think that both campaigns are run on lies and bullshit, scaremongering and spin. It highlights everything I hate about politics and politicians.
The money needs to be removed from politics, but a brexit won't do that. As such I will be voting IN.
However I would like to see the EU have a bit less control, or a push to make sure all nations have to follow the letter of the law ore stringently



Well I've definitely lost my willful optimism over the last few years
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