[TheMostHonourableBloke]

Thoroughly enjoyed the last 300 pages of this book. Looking forward to Walk In Shadow. Strangely enough, I actually preferred FOD, I got lost in that book far easier for some reason. Anyway, on the matter of Orfantal being able to leave his body, could that be a suggestion that his death by the sword of Kallor isn't a final death after all? Not sure what I think about that, just a thought. Guess we won't find out till the Karsa Trilogy anyway.

[worry]

Yeah that occurred to me too. It might not even lead to anything we see in future novels, but it leaves room for a potential.

[TheMostHonourableBloke]

I'd like it if he stayed dead, it would add weight to Eriksons theme concerning the spectre of death that remains close to us all, no matter who we are...If he's alive though, I won't mind haha

[qcp]

Assail spoiler:

Spoiler

This is just wild speculation here, but what if Jethiss is actually Orfantal instead of Spinnock Durav like everyone thinks. Both fought Kallor in front of the gates of Darujhistan and died. I know it's far more likely that Jethiss is Spinnock but weirder shit has happened.

[TheMostHonourableBloke]

Assail spoiler!! Dont know how to add spoilees on my shit phone!!







I've not read the book and to be honest I don't intend to (reading massive novels takes time and ICEs had three strikes from me). However, I've read up on a resurrected Tiste Andii so maybe thats a possibility? Does Jethiss just feel a little more like Spinnock, or is there more substantial evidence than that?

This post has been edited by TheMostHonourableBloke: 13 May 2016 - 04:40 PM

[qcp]

Spoiler

One of the statements he makes pretty much scream's "I was Spinnock," but it could also be interpreted differently if you take Orfantal's powers into consideration.

He says:
'I would travel to Coral,' Jethiss answered. 'There is a modest barrow there I would pay my respects to. A good friend. Many evenings we spent together playing Kef Tanar.'

Most people so far have interpreted that to be Spinnock talking about Seerdomin since they both played Kef Tanar and Seerdomin ended up in the barrow with Itkovian, but it could be interpreted to be Orfantal talking about Spinnock. The one thing that makes me think Jethiss is more likely to be Spinnock is after his death Spinnock probably wasn't buried since the Andii don't bother with things like that so there'd be no "modest barrow" to visit. Although Itkovian's barrow wasn't exactly modest....

[TheMostHonourableBloke]

Thanks for that qcp, yes that does point to "the prime suspect"

[Randomander]

qcp, on 13 May 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

Assail spoiler:

Spoiler

This is just wild speculation here, but what if Jethiss is actually Orfantal instead of Spinnock Durav like everyone thinks. Both fought Kallor in front of the gates of Darujhistan and died. I know it's far more likely that Jethiss is Spinnock but weirder shit has happened.

Actually, I believe the last we saw Spinnock was outside Kharkanas, not Darujhistan. Your point still stands, but I had always interpreted the "portal" Jethiss had talked about being one of his only memories was the Light/Darkness border there. Also, its good to see you made it over here, I was actually the one who responded to your reddit post a few days ago haha.

[Randomander]

qcp, on 13 May 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

Assail spoiler:

Spoiler

This is just wild speculation here, but what if Jethiss is actually Orfantal instead of Spinnock Durav like everyone thinks. Both fought Kallor in front of the gates of Darujhistan and died. I know it's far more likely that Jethiss is Spinnock but weirder shit has happened.

Actually, I believe the last we saw Spinnock was outside Kharkanas, not Darujhistan. Your point still stands, but I had always interpreted the "portal" Jethiss had talked about being one of his only memories was the Light/Darkness border there. Also, its good to see you made it over here, I was actually the one who responded to your reddit post a few days ago haha.

[Kellanved's shadow]

Randomander, on 13 May 2016 - 07:57 PM, said:

qcp, on 13 May 2016 - 04:20 PM, said:

Assail spoiler:

Spoiler

This is just wild speculation here, but what if Jethiss is actually Orfantal instead of Spinnock Durav like everyone thinks. Both fought Kallor in front of the gates of Darujhistan and died. I know it's far more likely that Jethiss is Spinnock but weirder shit has happened.

Actually, I believe the last we saw Spinnock was outside Kharkanas, not Darujhistan. Your point still stands, but I had always interpreted the "portal" Jethiss had talked about being one of his only memories was the Light/Darkness border there. Also, its good to see you made it over here, I was actually the one who responded to your reddit post a few days ago haha.

You are correct the last time we see Spinnock Durav is when he is leading his tiste Andii through the portal at lightfall in CG.

[Drusas Achamian]

Indeed, at the end of TCG, Spinnock Durav is still alive and with Nimander and co.

[worry]

Well that's true for much of TCG....at the end though, not so much.

[Axey]

I have currently started on the Esslemont books for a second time and on the Crimson Guard one. I think it has to be Spinnock though. Maybe SE and IE realised that they left the Spinnock Durav issue open in TCG by mistake and created Jethis to rectify this

[Randomander]

Drusas Achamian, on 15 May 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

Indeed, at the end of TCG, Spinnock Durav is still alive and with Nimander and co.

I don't think he was actually present with Nimander when they all appeared after the final battle. He was notably left off the list of surviving characters, although there wasn't any mention of his fall. I don't have the textual evidence right now, but i believe this was confirmed in an Assail post where we had discussed the likelihood of Jethiss being Spinnock.

[worry]

It's implied at the end of TCG when Korlat includes a memory stone or whatever they're called for Spinnock, among her other stones. I definitely didn't catch this first time through, but some sharp-eyed soul noted it in one of the Assail debates on this, and I think it's something like a clincher along with the other evidence.

[Drusas Achamian]

You're completely right