[yessandalsnosocks]

So I finally finished these series after something like 2 years of starting it, and boy what a road trip this has been.

So I would like to ask some questions since obviously one cannot comprehend it all alone after reading it once. Here they are:

At the end, Icarium seems to not remember Mappo. But, when he sees the stone Mappo was carrying and Ublabla picked up, he says that he just remembered something. That was one of the most "WHOOSH" feelings in these books. Now I know there will be sequels such as Karsa's trilogy to this, can we expect Icarium to go batcrazy after remembering? Or was it like, he remembered Mappo (or at least some part of Mappo) and was at peace? I tend to think the latter but my first feeling was "oh he's going to go batcrazy like never before".

Cotillion and Shadowthrone: Did they get what they wanted in the end? It seems they're still plotting something when they're near Apsalar and Crokus's reunion at Itko Kan. Plus it always strikes me that they just betrayed the Crippled God at the end, rather than freeing him...

The demon in Malaz Harbour: was he that significant to be the last paragraph of the series? Or did I not quite catch it all? I seem to remember he had something to do with a ship in Malaz or something, but I don't know much more than that.

Tavore and Paran: Did Tavore know Felisin was Sha'ik or not? It always stroke me that Tavore was just keeping it all inside, that she actually knew but never told anyone.

Hetan: How did she come back to life (?)

I have more questions I think, but I can't remember them all right now, so this will do.

Also, props to Steven Erikson for the ending. Tool's story was amazing. A sad story turns into a happy story, that turns into an even sadder, that turns into absolute despair, only to end in utter happiness. Jesus, a masterpiece of a character. Every time I thought Tool's story was done, he came back for more, and brilliantly so. Korlat's reunion with WJ was also nice to see.

However, I will never forgive SE for Itkovian and Beak. Never. you don't do that to Itkovian and Beak, you just don't.

This post has been edited by yessandalsnosocks: 12 May 2016 - 09:55 AM

[Abyss]

 yessandalsnosocks, on 12 May 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

So I finally finished these series after something like 2 years of starting it, and boy what a road trip this has been.

Congrats!

It was pretty awesome, wasn`t it?

Now.... ICE books or reread?

Quote

So I would like to ask some questions since obviously one cannot comprehend it all alone after reading it once. Here they are:

....and conveniently, here WE are...

Quote

At the end, Icarium seems to not remember Mappo. But, when he sees the stone Mappo was carrying and Ublabla picked up, he says that he just remembered something. That was one of the most "WHOOSH" feelings in these books. Now I know there will be sequels such as Karsa's trilogy to this, can we expect Icarium to go batcrazy after remembering? Or was it like, he remembered Mappo (or at least some part of Mappo) and was at peace? I tend to think the latter but my first feeling was "oh he's going to go batcrazy like never before".

A little bit of everything.

Even before he started his Machine back in RG, Iccy was having slight memory flashes, including of his old keepers.

Post the Eres'al healing in TB, the Machine in RG, the KChain City in DoD, the new warrens in TCG and everything else, we don`t really know what state Iccy`s brain is in, but he seems slightly less bugnuts genocidal.




Also, Iccy`s keeper has a strong influence on him, so a lot of his self-doubt came from Mappo, he was bitter when he was with Veed... makes one wonder what state of mind he`ll be in with someone as content and easygoing as Ublala. Could be his best keeper ever.

Quote

Cotillion and Shadowthrone: Did they get what they wanted in the end? It seems they're still plotting something when they're near Apsalar and Crokus's reunion at Itko Kan. Plus it always strikes me that they just betrayed the Crippled God at the end, rather than freeing him...

To free him they had to release him and that required killing his body. No ascension without death is a running theme in the books and the CG`s reunification was a form of ascension.

I think.

I also think that the entire CG plan was only part of ST and Cots' long term plan.

Quote

The demon in Malaz Harbour: was he that significant to be the last paragraph of the series? Or did I not quite catch it all? I seem to remember he had something to do with a ship in Malaz or something, but I don't know much more than that.

More a reminder that there`s always more to the story and other stories.

Quote

Tavore and Paran: Did Tavore know Felisin was Sha'ik or not? It always stroke me that Tavore was just keeping it all inside, that she actually knew but never told anyone.

Never clear beyond the possibility that she suspected.

I don`t think she ever knew.

Quote

Hetan: How did she come back to life (?)

Massive battle going on at the Spire, more or less a war for the planet, summons the remaining aspect of Fener, God of War.

In Darujhistan Karsa splits the very last altar of Fener where the Warpgi`s last worshippers have gathered.

The effect of shattering this last chunk of power kills Fener and sends his blood raining down on the battlefield.

A god`s blood is a powerful thing and it resurrects some of the dead on the battlefield, specifically the Imass (inconveniently) and Hetan whose body had been left there by... I'm blanking. We can assume there was some sorcery involved since all the dead on the battlefield didn`t just get up as well.

Quote

I have more questions I think, but I can't remember them all right now, so this will do.

Any time.

Quote

Also, props to Steven Erikson for the ending. Tool's story was amazing. A sad story turns into a happy story, that turns into an even sadder, that turns into absolute despair, only to end in utter happiness. Jesus, a masterpiece of a character. Every time I thought Tool's story was done, he came back for more, and brilliantly so. Korlat's reunion with WJ was also nice to see.

Agreed.

Quote

However, I will never forgive SE for Itkovian and Beak. Never. you don't do that to Itkovian and Beak, you just don't.

^

Or Coltaine. Or Trull. Or Rake. Or....

[Kanese S's]

 yessandalsnosocks, on 12 May 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

So I finally finished these series after something like 2 years of starting it, and boy what a road trip this has been.

So I would like to ask some questions since obviously one cannot comprehend it all alone after reading it once. Here they are:

At the end, Icarium seems to not remember Mappo. But, when he sees the stone Mappo was carrying and Ublabla picked up, he says that he just remembered something. That was one of the most "WHOOSH" feelings in these books. Now I know there will be sequels such as Karsa's trilogy to this, can we expect Icarium to go batcrazy after remembering? Or was it like, he remembered Mappo (or at least some part of Mappo) and was at peace? I tend to think the latter but my first feeling was "oh he's going to go batcrazy like never before".

It's left up to reader interpretation. We won't know unless Icarium appears in the Toblakai books.

Quote

Cotillion and Shadowthrone: Did they get what they wanted in the end? It seems they're still plotting something when they're near Apsalar and Crokus's reunion at Itko Kan. Plus it always strikes me that they just betrayed the Crippled God at the end, rather than freeing him...

Again, up to reader interpretation. By killing his body they may have sent his soul back to his original realm and followers.

Quote

The demon in Malaz Harbour: was he that significant to be the last paragraph of the series? Or did I not quite catch it all? I seem to remember he had something to do with a ship in Malaz or something, but I don't know much more than that.

It's a tie back.

Quote

Tavore and Paran: Did Tavore know Felisin was Sha'ik or not? It always stroke me that Tavore was just keeping it all inside, that she actually knew but never told anyone.

We don't know. It's up to reader interpretation. Erikson deliberately never wrote a Tavore POV.

Quote

Hetan: How did she come back to life (?)

Don't quite remember. May have had to do with the sacrifice of Fener?

[worry]

It's the Fener sacrifice AND Toc gathering the necessary parts in one place (he kinda does a mini version of what everyone's been doing with Kaminsod, as a way to make up for his forced mistreatment of Tool earlier). He gets her body, and he gets her soul (which Badalle recovered near the end of DoD on one of her exploratory flights), and I forget if there was another component to it.

[yessandalsnosocks]

 Abyss, on 12 May 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

 yessandalsnosocks, on 12 May 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

So I finally finished these series after something like 2 years of starting it, and boy what a road trip this has been.

Congrats!

It was pretty awesome, wasn`t it?

Now.... ICE books or reread?

Quote

So I would like to ask some questions since obviously one cannot comprehend it all alone after reading it once. Here they are:

....and conveniently, here WE are...

Quote

At the end, Icarium seems to not remember Mappo. But, when he sees the stone Mappo was carrying and Ublabla picked up, he says that he just remembered something. That was one of the most "WHOOSH" feelings in these books. Now I know there will be sequels such as Karsa's trilogy to this, can we expect Icarium to go batcrazy after remembering? Or was it like, he remembered Mappo (or at least some part of Mappo) and was at peace? I tend to think the latter but my first feeling was "oh he's going to go batcrazy like never before".

A little bit of everything.

Even before he started his Machine back in RG, Iccy was having slight memory flashes, including of his old keepers.

Post the Eres'al healing in TB, the Machine in RG, the KChain City in DoD, the new warrens in TCG and everything else, we don`t really know what state Iccy`s brain is in, but he seems slightly less bugnuts genocidal.




Also, Iccy`s keeper has a strong influence on him, so a lot of his self-doubt came from Mappo, he was bitter when he was with Veed... makes one wonder what state of mind he`ll be in with someone as content and easygoing as Ublala. Could be his best keeper ever.

Quote

Cotillion and Shadowthrone: Did they get what they wanted in the end? It seems they're still plotting something when they're near Apsalar and Crokus's reunion at Itko Kan. Plus it always strikes me that they just betrayed the Crippled God at the end, rather than freeing him...

To free him they had to release him and that required killing his body. No ascension without death is a running theme in the books and the CG`s reunification was a form of ascension.

I think.

I also think that the entire CG plan was only part of ST and Cots' long term plan.

Quote

The demon in Malaz Harbour: was he that significant to be the last paragraph of the series? Or did I not quite catch it all? I seem to remember he had something to do with a ship in Malaz or something, but I don't know much more than that.

More a reminder that there`s always more to the story and other stories.

Quote

Tavore and Paran: Did Tavore know Felisin was Sha'ik or not? It always stroke me that Tavore was just keeping it all inside, that she actually knew but never told anyone.

Never clear beyond the possibility that she suspected.

I don`t think she ever knew.

Quote

Hetan: How did she come back to life (?)

Massive battle going on at the Spire, more or less a war for the planet, summons the remaining aspect of Fener, God of War.

In Darujhistan Karsa splits the very last altar of Fener where the Warpgi`s last worshippers have gathered.

The effect of shattering this last chunk of power kills Fener and sends his blood raining down on the battlefield.

A god`s blood is a powerful thing and it resurrects some of the dead on the battlefield, specifically the Imass (inconveniently) and Hetan whose body had been left there by... I'm blanking. We can assume there was some sorcery involved since all the dead on the battlefield didn`t just get up as well.

Quote

I have more questions I think, but I can't remember them all right now, so this will do.

Any time.

Quote

Also, props to Steven Erikson for the ending. Tool's story was amazing. A sad story turns into a happy story, that turns into an even sadder, that turns into absolute despair, only to end in utter happiness. Jesus, a masterpiece of a character. Every time I thought Tool's story was done, he came back for more, and brilliantly so. Korlat's reunion with WJ was also nice to see.

Agreed.

Quote

However, I will never forgive SE for Itkovian and Beak. Never. you don't do that to Itkovian and Beak, you just don't.

^

Or Coltaine. Or Trull. Or Rake. Or....

I'm thinking ICE books. I want some Skinner and Kallor in my life. I don't know if I can do a reread when my first took me 2 years.

About Hetan, I do think she was ressurected by Fener's blood yes, but why was her body there? The wiki says Toc dragged her body there, but I don't remember that lol.

I actually liked Trull a lot but he always seemed he would go at some point. Rake and Coltaine were great characters but no emotional connection was possible since no POV's were had (at least not recurrently).

Ikovian and Beak... every time I remember them my man tears start coming up. Oh and I forgot Mappo's ending too, sigh


more questions:

Smiley's sister: I always thought some twist would happen and Apsalar would turn out to be her sister. Both are from Itko Kan, both are young, both have black hair, both had names that started with an S (Sorry and Smiles), both were cunning with their blades, and both were not that nice while in the malazan army to all the others. Turns out my theory was wrong. Was there ever any deeper meaning to this I could have missed?

Why did the Snake have such willpower? Why was Badalle that strong? I know it has something to do with her ascending (?) to become sort of a Destriant of some house I can't really remember, but that girl was overpowered.

The names of Crippled God and Forkrul Assail god. I know TCG is Kaminsod, but only because I looked up. the other one I don't. any clues as to where CG's name was stated and who the FA god is? I always thought the FA god was Kilmandaros, and when it became obvious it wasn't, I thought it was going to be the CG, but nope.

Mother Dark: So she was back. ok..... so...... what up with that? she never even showed up for anything :\

Pores and Blistig: That should have had a wrap-up. Last thing we were shown on Pores POV, he was saying Blistig would pay for it all. I get he probably forgot about it, but it just seemed like it was forgotten. did I miss anything too?

Togg and Fanderay: which one of them was slain in the end? we ever find out? Strange as it was, I always like Tanakalian. He had his flaws, and a huge ego, and a glory complex, but he was the one that saw true with the wolf gods imo. just his ways were not the most honourable, but he was always being treated like garbage by Krughava, and then by Setoc too. Even the destriant he killed was looking at him with disdain. And even if he was not the wisest Shield Anvil, they did not know enough about him to treat him like that...

Sinn: when did she turn evil (mad) ? I seem to think there was a point her brother died, but before he died she was already becoming mad. She was always unstable but the Sinn we see in TCG was a character I thought was going to end up being the main villain of the entire series.

Stonny: did her story ever wrap up? She loved Gruntle, dead. She loved Murilio, dead. Was it just a bad ending and that's all?

Sandalath and Withal: How did it end for them? Their story just abruplty stopped and never got picked up again.

Also, before the shadow dance of Lostara, her last line was "Pearl?" as if she had seen him. Now I think this was at the time the undead were all coming back (i'm not even sure it was in TCG). Did she actually see Pearl? Her love for Henar Vygulf also seemed very forced, almost as if she was just trying to forget Pearl with a macho man like Henar. I always thought we would see Pearl's return but alas.

I have much more questions about character like L'oric, Osric, Kallor, Skinner, Envy, Spite, etc. but from what I've seen it's ICE's RAFO

[yessandalsnosocks]

 worry, on 12 May 2016 - 06:46 PM, said:

It's the Fener sacrifice AND Toc gathering the necessary parts in one place (he kinda does a mini version of what everyone's been doing with Kaminsod, as a way to make up for his forced mistreatment of Tool earlier). He gets her body, and he gets her soul (which Badalle recovered near the end of DoD on one of her exploratory flights), and I forget if there was another component to it.

Oh the Badalle dream about Hetan, I had forgotten that. Makes more sense now. Still the Toc gathering her body seems kinda wtf, I don't think he knew about Fener's sacrifice beforehand (?)

[Kanese S's]

 yessandalsnosocks, on 12 May 2016 - 07:28 PM, said:

 Abyss, on 12 May 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

 yessandalsnosocks, on 12 May 2016 - 09:52 AM, said:

So I finally finished these series after something like 2 years of starting it, and boy what a road trip this has been.

Congrats!

It was pretty awesome, wasn`t it?

Now.... ICE books or reread?

Quote

So I would like to ask some questions since obviously one cannot comprehend it all alone after reading it once. Here they are:

....and conveniently, here WE are...

Quote

At the end, Icarium seems to not remember Mappo. But, when he sees the stone Mappo was carrying and Ublabla picked up, he says that he just remembered something. That was one of the most "WHOOSH" feelings in these books. Now I know there will be sequels such as Karsa's trilogy to this, can we expect Icarium to go batcrazy after remembering? Or was it like, he remembered Mappo (or at least some part of Mappo) and was at peace? I tend to think the latter but my first feeling was "oh he's going to go batcrazy like never before".

A little bit of everything.

Even before he started his Machine back in RG, Iccy was having slight memory flashes, including of his old keepers.

Post the Eres'al healing in TB, the Machine in RG, the KChain City in DoD, the new warrens in TCG and everything else, we don`t really know what state Iccy`s brain is in, but he seems slightly less bugnuts genocidal.




Also, Iccy`s keeper has a strong influence on him, so a lot of his self-doubt came from Mappo, he was bitter when he was with Veed... makes one wonder what state of mind he`ll be in with someone as content and easygoing as Ublala. Could be his best keeper ever.

Quote

Cotillion and Shadowthrone: Did they get what they wanted in the end? It seems they're still plotting something when they're near Apsalar and Crokus's reunion at Itko Kan. Plus it always strikes me that they just betrayed the Crippled God at the end, rather than freeing him...

To free him they had to release him and that required killing his body. No ascension without death is a running theme in the books and the CG`s reunification was a form of ascension.

I think.

I also think that the entire CG plan was only part of ST and Cots' long term plan.

Quote

The demon in Malaz Harbour: was he that significant to be the last paragraph of the series? Or did I not quite catch it all? I seem to remember he had something to do with a ship in Malaz or something, but I don't know much more than that.

More a reminder that there`s always more to the story and other stories.

Quote

Tavore and Paran: Did Tavore know Felisin was Sha'ik or not? It always stroke me that Tavore was just keeping it all inside, that she actually knew but never told anyone.

Never clear beyond the possibility that she suspected.

I don`t think she ever knew.

Quote

Hetan: How did she come back to life (?)

Massive battle going on at the Spire, more or less a war for the planet, summons the remaining aspect of Fener, God of War.

In Darujhistan Karsa splits the very last altar of Fener where the Warpgi`s last worshippers have gathered.

The effect of shattering this last chunk of power kills Fener and sends his blood raining down on the battlefield.

A god`s blood is a powerful thing and it resurrects some of the dead on the battlefield, specifically the Imass (inconveniently) and Hetan whose body had been left there by... I'm blanking. We can assume there was some sorcery involved since all the dead on the battlefield didn`t just get up as well.

Quote

I have more questions I think, but I can't remember them all right now, so this will do.

Any time.

Quote

Also, props to Steven Erikson for the ending. Tool's story was amazing. A sad story turns into a happy story, that turns into an even sadder, that turns into absolute despair, only to end in utter happiness. Jesus, a masterpiece of a character. Every time I thought Tool's story was done, he came back for more, and brilliantly so. Korlat's reunion with WJ was also nice to see.

Agreed.

Quote

However, I will never forgive SE for Itkovian and Beak. Never. you don't do that to Itkovian and Beak, you just don't.

^

Or Coltaine. Or Trull. Or Rake. Or....

I'm thinking ICE books. I want some Skinner and Kallor in my life. I don't know if I can do a reread when my first took me 2 years.

About Hetan, I do think she was ressurected by Fener's blood yes, but why was her body there? The wiki says Toc dragged her body there, but I don't remember that lol.

I actually liked Trull a lot but he always seemed he would go at some point. Rake and Coltaine were great characters but no emotional connection was possible since no POV's were had (at least not recurrently).

Ikovian and Beak... every time I remember them my man tears start coming up. Oh and I forgot Mappo's ending too, sigh

more questions:

Smiley's sister: I always thought some twist would happen and Apsalar would turn out to be her sister. Both are from Itko Kan, both are young, both have black hair, both had names that started with an S (Sorry and Smiles), both were cunning with their blades, and both were not that nice while in the malazan army to all the others. Turns out my theory was wrong. Was there ever any deeper meaning to this I could have missed?

Why did the Snake have such willpower? Why was Badalle that strong? I know it has something to do with her ascending (?) to become sort of a Destriant of some house I can't really remember, but that girl was overpowered.

The names of Crippled God and Forkrul Assail god. I know TCG is Kaminsod, but only because I looked up. the other one I don't. any clues as to where CG's name was stated and who the FA god is? I always thought the FA god was Kilmandaros, and when it became obvious it wasn't, I thought it was going to be the CG, but nope.

Mother Dark: So she was back. ok..... so...... what up with that? she never even showed up for anything :\

Pores and Blistig: That should have had a wrap-up. Last thing we were shown on Pores POV, he was saying Blistig would pay for it all. I get he probably forgot about it, but it just seemed like it was forgotten. did I miss anything too?

Togg and Fanderay: which one of them was slain in the end? we ever find out? Strange as it was, I always like Tanakalian. He had his flaws, and a huge ego, and a glory complex, but he was the one that saw true with the wolf gods imo. just his ways were not the most honourable, but he was always being treated like garbage by Krughava, and then by Setoc too. Even the destriant he killed was looking at him with disdain. And even if he was not the wisest Shield Anvil, they did not know enough about him to treat him like that...

Sinn: when did she turn evil (mad) ? I seem to think there was a point her brother died, but before he died she was already becoming mad. She was always unstable but the Sinn we see in TCG was a character I thought was going to end up being the main villain of the entire series.

Stonny: did her story ever wrap up? She loved Gruntle, dead. She loved Murilio, dead. Was it just a bad ending and that's all?

Sandalath and Withal: How did it end for them? Their story just abruplty stopped and never got picked up again.

Also, before the shadow dance of Lostara, her last line was "Pearl?" as if she had seen him. Now I think this was at the time the undead were all coming back (i'm not even sure it was in TCG). Did she actually see Pearl? Her love for Henar Vygulf also seemed very forced, almost as if she was just trying to forget Pearl with a macho man like Henar. I always thought we would see Pearl's return but alas.

I have much more questions about character like L'oric, Osric, Kallor, Skinner, Envy, Spite, etc. but from what I've seen it's ICE's RAFO

Smiles and Sorry - Yeah, similar, but not sisters, to my knowledge (Smiles' sister is dead, as I recall). Yeah, they both have black hair, but as far as I recall, all Kanese whose hair color is described have dark hair.

The Snake - You can ask that of anyone that mindlessly keeps going out of sheer stubborness when it seems all hope is lost.

The FA god's name is stated in an earlier book, I believe.

Mother Dark - The Tiste Andii were able to return to Kurald Galain, were they not?

Pores and Bistig - nope, not that I know of.

Tanakalian had a point. Fanatics often do.

Untreated mental illness usually gets worse and worse and worse, not better. Such was the case with Sinn.

Stonny appears in an ICE book.

Sand and Withal are in Kurald Galain with the other Tiste Andii.

There is such a thing as rebounding, in the case of Lostara.