[Tapper]

Khellendros, on 04 May 2016 - 11:17 AM, said:

Oh dear, I think you've missed your window for a taken out of context retort. Don't worry, I'm sure Gust will be around soon to have a go himself.

Oh, spare me the sarcasm. Yeah, I ride you hard and perhaps based on nothing more than your mis-read. But you're the one who messed up here, both if you're scum and doubly so if you're town.

[Khellendros]

Tapper, on 04 May 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

Khellendros, on 04 May 2016 - 11:17 AM, said:

Oh dear, I think you've missed your window for a taken out of context retort. Don't worry, I'm sure Gust will be around soon to have a go himself.

Oh, spare me the sarcasm. Yeah, I ride you hard and perhaps based on nothing more than your mis-read. But you're the one who messed up here, both if you're scum and doubly so if you're town.

You mean we don't forgive genuine misreads in mafia? I'm shocked I tell you. Shocked!

[Tapper]

Khellendros, on 04 May 2016 - 11:25 AM, said:

Clearly it didn't clearly mean it to me

So wait for Bubba then. Or don't. It would be odd to me for a healer to be told if he had successfully fended off a kill, but maybe that is what he is saying.

I didn't account for Bliss because Gnaw revealed that only after I had already posted my theory about what's happened based on the information I had at that time. I'm not psychic. I could not have known there was a guard also.

Really? Jesus Khell, if you are town, you should take time to fucking get your facts straight.
You're not helping here at all. Bubba's reveal came after Gnaw posting Bliss' dead message.

Gnaw, on 03 May 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Night 5.

Lady Bliss is dead. She was guard.

Bubba, on 03 May 2016 - 11:30 PM, said:

I feel with how town is doing right now that I need to reveal.

I'm the Healer. I can now say with some certainty that there is one scum team and a SK. They both went for LB last night. I know this because I healed her last night. The only way she could die is because there were two kill actions against her. I could only block one That tells me they are separate scums with no contact. My money is on Kell being the remaining killer and Dhen being the SK. My case is based on the fact that I healed Kell night one and night two and no one took a shot at him either night. out of four kill orders no one tried to kill Kell..He is way to high on to many lists and way to good of a player to not have been targeted.

My case for Dhen is ...Who else is going to target a new guy? You all are a bunch of cruel ass mofos... but night killing a new guy? I think that takes a new guy to do. I think the reason Dhem hasn't taken a shot at Kell is because He hasn't played here before and doesn't realize how dangerous Kell is as a player.

I still think Tapper is Kells symp.... way to good of a player to throw out bullshit like did.

I figure this is the best time to throw this out because with a possible three more deaths today, my chances of being alive on day six were low and I wanted town to know what I do at this point.

..and an apology.... This the first game in a long time where there was great amounts of content.......and I was forced by RI to low post. I did need a Mod Kill but didn't want to screw over my team.

Quote

Now that we do know there was a guard, yes, a kill could also have been guarded. But why did Bliss not reveal that then, if we're of the opinion that in this game town roles get told if they successfully foil kills?

Maybe it is only the healer. Non-standard role and all that jazz. Who knows. Maybe she figured paired killers so she couldn't stop kills until one was lynched. Once again, who knows.

Quote

And let's then say, in theory, Bliss did guard a kill. What's to say that kill wasn't targetted at me the same night Bubba healed me?

That would be a coincidence, but possible. Just a very slim chance and a convenient explanation given the fact she isn't around anymore.

[Khellendros]

Tapper, Gnaw edited this SIX HOURS after he first posted it, and after Bubba and I posted. When I read it last night, it said Bliss was RI.

Gnaw, on 03 May 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Night 5.

Lady Bliss is dead. She was guard.

GNAW, COME DOWN HERE AND TELL HIM THIS IS SO.

[Khellendros]

Gnaw, on 04 May 2016 - 02:31 AM, said:

Gnaw, on 03 May 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Night 5.

Lady Bliss is dead. She was RI.

Lady Bliss is dead. She was guard


mea culpa, thanks to Mess for pointing that out.

Or as easily proven by this post in fact.

[Tapper]

Khellendros, on 04 May 2016 - 11:34 AM, said:

Tapper, Gnaw edited this SIX HOURS after he first posted it, and after Bubba and I posted. When I read it last night, it said Bliss was RI.

Gnaw, on 03 May 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Night 5.

Lady Bliss is dead. She was guard.

GNAW, COME DOWN HERE AND TELL HIM THIS IS SO.

God fucking damn. Mods should ALSO not edit their own goddamned posts, apart perhaps from vote counts.
Okay, I can accept that bit - and I guess we will all wait for Bubba, now.

[Khellendros]

A misread eh? Bad play, we should lynch you for it

[Tapper]

Khellendros, on 04 May 2016 - 11:44 AM, said:

A misread eh? Bad play, we should lynch you for it

Plenty of shit on me enough already to not need that
Besides that, there's imho still enough to place big question marks at your innocence.

1A, you're still very eager to use Bubba's explanation to CI yourself, which is everywhere in text.
1B, Bubba needs to clarify whether or not he knows if you were targeted or not.


2, let's keep the option open that Bliss did guard correctly on night 2: that works in your defense. We can assume she wanted to make sure it wasn't luck or with-holding, so didn't reveal immediately, also.
But, why didn't she reveal that later in the game, more specifically, after night 3, when the 2 NKs returned?
On night 4, she was killed despite Bubba's claim that he healed her. He claims that it took 2 kills to get her down, so from that it seems reasonable that she didn't return to guarding whomever she was guarding night 2 - a logical precaution if she thought on night 2 she guarded correctly.

3, you assume 3 killers and a symp (probably me). How do we end up with a dead scum through that model? How do two kills factor in, for that matter? And how does scum keep two kills after one of them is already dead?

4, you have been misreading my point for an awfully long time without getting it clear (I guess that's my problem), as well as twisting Bubba's words in a way that's favorable for you.

[Tapper]

And yes, I am aware that point 4 is point 1. It's for extra emphasis so everyone can say I am batshit insane.

[Khellendros]

Actually, I assume you're a killer now, as I said when I voted for you.

Hmm, I wonder if it's possible that Bliss also guarded Bubba last night and that's why he didn't manage to save her? But I would presume Bubba would have gotten a 'you were guarded' message? Oh the theories!

[Khellendros]

Point 3, I don't really know, but I do think I'm right to some degree (about numbers if not mechanics). Alternating kills, one pair and one solo, could be lots of different permutations. The number of roles don't really stack up for me if there were just two killers to begin with. I think after you almost certainly go and lynch me today, there will still be two scum to find.

I might go have a look to see who that might be. You and Dhenrabi, is my current guess.


Edit: Added 'and'.

This post has been edited by Khellendros: 04 May 2016 - 12:11 PM

[Macros]

ADL, Blend, Bubba, Dhenrabi, Gusty, HO, Khell and Tapps

This was my list way back on day 3, people that were left I thought could be paired with Kitsu.
Since then we've lost 2
So
Bubba, Dhenrabi, Gusty, HO, Khell and Tapps

On that list are left, and if someone walked up to me right now and put a gun to my head and demanded to know who the killer amongst them was I couldn't even take a remotely confident stab at it. Im keen to see what bubba says regarding his night actions and whether or not he is told he was required, or if he was ever told that he was guarded. Nit that I think it will stop tapps and khell bawling each other out, but I think it will clear up my feelings in Khells direction.

[HiddenOne]

You guys got busy while I was away.

I have to read up before I can even comment

[Tapper]

Khellendros, on 04 May 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

Point 3, I don't really know, but I do think I'm right to some degree (about numbers if not mechanics). Alternating kills, one pair and one solo, could be lots of different permutations. The number of roles don't really stack up for me if there were just two killers to begin with. I think after you almost certainly go and lynch me today, there will still be two scum to find.

I might go have a look to see who that might be. You and Dhenrabi, is my current guess.


Edit: Added 'and'.

Oh, I am happy to go: first, because it makes sure I am not a killer. Second, I feel it would help town because I feel I did get very little right this game, and finally, just like you, my CF would provide plenty of clarity right now and might get a better re-read.

In fact, this is one of the things which riled me in Tatts early game: he tried to shove Bliss under the bus early on in the game when there was a train on both of them, just like I am unhappy about you PI-ing yourself.

The whole problem I have with your set-up is not the numbers of scum: 3 or 4 at game's start feels right - I wouldn't have made my case on JPK/Tatts/GH if I didn't believe in that - but I had problems with explaining the double night 1 kill there and then already. I could attribute the first night's second kill to a vig or to a unique extra kill night 1 to give a little bit of extra fire power to a trio of scum, but - and that's also what I think is the weak point in your theory - alternating kills do not explain two kills on night 1 and night 3.

[Tapper]

Macros, on 04 May 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

ADL, Blend, Bubba, Dhenrabi, Gusty, HO, Khell and Tapps

This was my list way back on day 3, people that were left I thought could be paired with Kitsu.
Since then we've lost 2
So
Bubba, Dhenrabi, Gusty, HO, Khell and Tapps

On that list are left, and if someone walked up to me right now and put a gun to my head and demanded to know who the killer amongst them was I couldn't even take a remotely confident stab at it. Im keen to see what bubba says regarding his night actions and whether or not he is told he was required, or if he was ever told that he was guarded. Nit that I think it will stop tapps and khell bawling each other out, but I think it will clear up my feelings in Khells direction.

If I have to put a sticker on anyone other than Khell as scum, then my guess is Dhenrabi and Andorion.

Bubba's healer reveal pre-Bliss' didn't make sense as a scum play unless it's D-Day and a different scum has come under fire. In that case, the convenient thing to do is claim you healed that person night 2.

HO, well, could be. No read either way.

Gust: I didn't like his interactions with Tatts, I didn't like how he harped on Khell from day 2 onwards, but Tatts came up RI and right now I also don't like Khell, so.... I might need to revisit that.

You are PI imho, and that leaves Andorion, who I feel has been very cautious. I'd look there if Khell comes up town.

Khell is a special case.
I really don't like his play today. But up until this morning, I thought he did what a good townie did: read, re-read and make cases - which is why I have been critical of those attacking him.
Now, what he has been doing could also be sympish, but with Gnaw using RI specifically as CF instead of 'town', I think there might be no symps in this game at all. Of course, given how people look at me right now, that is exactly what I would say.

As for me, I can see how I'm considered scummy. My case on Tatts and GH would have been better without the JPK angle, with less repercussions for my perceived innocence/guilt, but a big question for me was how a scum could die on the only kill of the night.

[Tapper]

And with that, I have to leave. Sorry for the mess.

[Andorion]

I am leaning very hard towards voting Khell because of that Tapper post.

At this stage of the game, Khell misreading that much is a bit too much to believe.

I really wish Bubba would clarify.

[Khellendros]

Andorion, on 04 May 2016 - 02:09 PM, said:

I am leaning very hard towards voting Khell because of that Tapper post.

At this stage of the game, Khell misreading that much is a bit too much to believe.

I really wish Bubba would clarify.

Which Tapper post?

What difference does it make if I misread? Are you saying I tried to trick everyone, hoping that you have all forgotten about my post from only a few hours earlier which is on the same fucking page?

Spare me. Or find something better to argue my lynch with.

[Khellendros]

It's not like I even deny the bloody thing. What's to deny? Bubba healed me night 2, there was one kill night 2. What else would you make of that in my position?

Yes, now we can throw in Bliss' guarding which comes up with a hundred other possibilities, but as we have no idea who she guarded in any night then there's very little concrete direction to take that in.

[Macros]

I'm going to remove vote for now. Waiting to see if bubba chips in, and to be honest the tapper/khell slugfest kind of reminds me of a few times I got into serious pissing matches with venge when we were both town and the killers were able to coast by for another day in the shade. of the remainder; Andorion, Dhenrabi, Gust Hubb, HiddenOne - I've kind of blindspotted dhenrabi and need to go back over his stuff, but I'm still feeling the HO/Ando vote.